Following yesterday’s rant about modern-day cars and their godless, snooping manufacturers, I want to say this.
One of these days, I’m going to need a new car — the Tiguan’s odometer is nudging 150,000 miles pretty hard, and every time I set off on any kind of trip, I’m apprehensive.
I have no idea how I’m going to afford it without draining our meager savings; I may have to auction off almost all my guns to a certain group of gun-loving Readers I happen to know, just to defray some of the cost.
But just so everyone’s clear on the topic: given all that’s appeared above, there is no way I will ever consider a “new” car — i.e. one made since the mid-1990s — but I’ll aim for one made without too much electronic equipment. Here’s an example:
1993 Mercedes Benz 300CE ($38,000)
Less than 35,000 miles, that lovely 3.2-liter engine, and a Euro-spec stick shift… oh be still, my beating heart.
Of course, by the time I would actually be in a place to buy this magnificent car, it would be long sold (because duh); but it should give you an idea of the direction I’m aiming.
There’s another option: American cars. But to find one of those that was made before 1995 and hasn’t been hot-rodded to hell and back? That makes me really nervous. (And I can’t go with a truck — New Wife is adamant on this.) Plus, except for the 65 Mustangs, American cars of that era a generally fugly.
I will accept any and all thoughts on the topic. Be kind, willya?
Ford Panther platform, Mercury Marquis or Crown Victoria. The 2000s models don’t have all the digital doodads and they are reliable and bullet proof. I own a 2003 Mercury Marauder, a grampa hotrod. It’s like driving a large Mustang, and will run all day at highway speeds. Oh and a spacious two-body trunk that will easily carry several cased long guns and lotsa ammo.
The major drawback of these is they have automatic transmissions, shifter on column. Though the Crown Vic LX Sport has a floor shifter. I have toyed with dropping a 5-speed manual into my car, but have held off because it might make it difficult to sell someday.
I dunno. I’ve been looking for one. They are either high mileage and beaten, or really nice, granny can’t drive anymore low mileage models. Those ones are pricey.
For a guy who love wood and steel… Don’t understand how you don’t see the beauty in a rugged reliable ….. Jeep. My 97 Wrangler Sahara (all the bells and whistles)… 220,000+ miles…. Bulletproof, which for a guy of your proclivities isn’t a bad option. And for ‘New Wife’ with all due respect it might come down to the question: “Do you want to walk, or do you want to ride?” Jes’ Sayin’. Blessings.
The TJ is a phenomenal vehicle, but it’s not really what I’d want as a daily, and certainly not as a family vehicle. I’m a hardcore Jeeper and own a ’22 Rubicon and even *that* is less than comfortable on blacktop, but that’s not why I bought it, of course.
Now with that said, a gently-used and never-offroaded JK with a 3.6 wouldn’t be a bad choice. In fact it would be a great choice. No superflous nanny software, available either in stick or wussomatic, decent on-road performance and stellar off-road. The Sahara platform would be better for Kim’s needs than the Rubicon, but even the sport, with manual wind-up windows and a 6-speed, is virtually unkillable and easy to maintain. Only issue with those is the 3.6 itself that tends to eat camshafts over 100,000 miles.
I need a bit more info.
How many miles do you drive a year?
Primary trip type ? I’m assuming you don’t have a daily 30 mile comment to the city in stop & go heavy traffic 5 days a week. Short forays into the Texas Heat? Or more weekly 100 mile adventures?
How religious are you about fluid changes? Not just occasional trips to Juffy-lubes. When if ever diD you have the transmission oil flushed and renewed. Engine coolant flushed and renewed.?
Asuuming it’s under 10,000 a year and you have regular service records and the Tiguan isn’t showing signs of imminate failure I would recommend keeping it to 200,000. Or major failure . You won’t get much for a tree in. Ale in either. Case.
I would not recommend a 35 year old low mileage garage queen / quasi-collector MB that hasen’t been driven in 15 years . I understand the desire to avoid the electronics, but that low mileage example will give you no end of issues because all the seals and mechanicals have not received the regular use they depend on to work. Would you shoot 25 year old ammo that you don’t personally know the storage history? Maybe it’s still safe , maybe not.
Now for a replacement , I would look for a 5 to 7 ear old Toyata SUV / 4 door with say 70 to 80k miles. That should last you.
…….. and if the electronic over the air updates really bother you just remove or cover the shark fin on the roof with aluminum foil.
As someone who’s bought several garage queens and tried to turn them into daily drivers, I heartily approve your comment. I’d rather take a 25 year old bullet to the head than another “it was running when we parked it 10 years ago” type vehicle.
‘Tree in Ale “. = Trade -in”. Autocorrect or fat figers on my IPad
I was shopping to replace our 2013 chevy traverse with 178,780 miles on it . While that SUV has served us well towing our travel trailer and toting lots of folks and stuff I felt it was time. We now have a chevy 1500 to tow and thought a low milage replacement car would work. Then I thought about a hybrid sedan, a toyota camry to be specific. We went to get one and found neither of us could get in or out easily. Both of us have bad hips and backs, we ended up ordering a rav4 hybrid. We expect this to be our last car. We’re pushing 80 and figure we probably have 10 more driving years at most.
When discussing American cars, remember that the bread-n-butter money makers for all the big three are TRUCKS. If it wasn’t for the F-150, the Chevy 1500, and the Ram 1500, all three companies would be in permanent bankruptcy. So that’s where all three put their best – best designs, best engineering, best marketing. Just saying, if you want a mid-90’s whatever that’ll keep running almost forever, look for the light duty truck market. Of course finding a low mileage truck from that era is a needle in the haystack type of search.
That said, most modern vehicles can last well over 250k miles or more. I wouldn’t consider 150k to be nearing the end. Just adjust for a little more maintenance here and there and all’s good. Plus you’re retired, how much mileage do you actually drive? I’m sitting at 150k on my Ram 1500 and I fully expect it to last another 10 years.
I am not far behind with an Audi Q3 that has 124k and a strange bearing noise I cannot locate. I changer the front brake pads at 100k but I could have gotten another 10 or 15k out of them. Besides routine maintenance that is the only maintenance that has been done to it. We average 20k per year and I am hoping to put off buying a car for another year. My 2018 Q3 is only worth about $6k according to Kelly Blue Book so I will try to get another year out of it.
I am looking at 2025 or 2026 Lexus 450H with the 4 banger – hybrid combo that gets over 40 mpg and will out accelerate my Q3. The Tiguan and Q3 share the same drivetrain and can be a beast when necessary but Toyota has pushed the powertrain warranty to 200k on their 5th gen hybrid powertrain. A 12 to 15 MPG boost would not hurt either.
The second option is a low mileage version of the 2024 of the Volvo S60 or V60. With either I am going to need to get a bit creative on raising the funds for a replacement car to avoid financing.
That’s a decision that revolves around what you can afford. I’m in your boat, sort of, having a 26 year old Ford truck. I’ve been looking for a second (N+1 redundancy) car. But I’m loathe to get a car note.
All things being equal, I’d second GT3Ted and say a Toyota < 10 years, <100k. They won't be cheap. Most of them are more than I want to pay, but that's me. But there are hidden gems – Avalons and Venzas aren't in a lot demand and are super cars for the money.
Oddly enough, some of the best prices for a given year and mileage are VWs. I can pick up a Passat with ~100k for 5-6K. They are thousands less than Toyotas for a similar car.
There's a vidya on youtube about the best used cars for the money. Ford Crown Vic/Mercury Marquis, Lincoln LS, Buick LeSabre (3.8L). Bad thing is that good ones are more pricey and it's still a very old car.
One of the cars that surprised me for it's durability is the Mazda CX-7 or 9 with the V6. You can get great deals on them too.
Honestly, f the Tiguan is maintained well, just keep it. A new motor or transmission is cheaper than another car. If you have a trip, get a rental. If it breaks they give you another one.
Benefits of a 90s Domestic car that is ugly:
1) easy to find in the parking lot -major plus as you enter your dottage
2) No one will steal it
3) the best view of it is from the inside as you drive around.
I’ve said repeatedly that if I had the money I’d go out and by 3 of the last year 100 series Land Cruisers, and then buy a bunch of spares. I’d drive the best one as a daily driver while the other two were brought up to date–things like better brakes, dash/backup cameras etc.
I’d make one of the two I’d fix up another “daily driver”, and one of them I’d set up as a more rural, SHTF type of vehicle. Then I’d have the “daily drive” “refreshed” so it was mostly new.
I’d be really surprised if your Tiguan doesn’t last another 75 or 100 thousand miles. You take reasonable care of your vehicles (at least it seems so) and modern cars are *pretty* good.
All of my vehicles (the newest is a 2010) are over 100k, with my Lexus GX470 over 280k. It currently needs new tires, but other than that I’d not worry about taking on a long highway trip. Hell, I’ve got an absolute bucket of a Suzuki XL-7 (2001) that’s got 160k on it. It needs a new clutch soon, but other than that it’s…I wouldn’t take it on a trip to Prudhoe Bay, but it’s good enough around town, and I’d take it up into the mountains.
What we’ve been doing for the last couple years is *renting* the appropriate car when we go on long trips. Usually that’s a Minivan (Toyota Sienna or whatever it is that Chrylser makes). These are *great* road trip cars. Smooth, comfortable, AWD if you’re travelling in the winter time, easy to get in and out of an lots of luggage room and space for The Dog.
I’m not really happy with what Congress (in this case both the GOP and the DSA) is mandating for cars, and I’m REALLY unhappy about how the auto makers have decided to monitize this, in addition to giving us increasingly crap cars.
But there was enough improvements and innovation through the early 2000s that I wouldn’t look at 1990s cars.
Unfortunately, a reliable low mileage budget friendly car that is 30 years old is going to be difficult to find. I think that you may have to bow to reality in some ways.
If it is worry about DCM (Data Communication Modules) then there are a few options. Toyota was one of the last holdouts on including these. They started putting them into their cars as of 2016 and by 2018 all their models had them. That gives you the possibility of having a 10 year old Camry without said module.
I suggest you do the sums and find out if you’re better off without a car, just hiring one when necessary. Can public transport and delivery services substitute?
I don’t pretend to speak for Kim, but picture him taking his gun kit(s) on a public bus in Plano, TX.
No, I couldn’t picture that either…
Not to mention that public transport in this area is the worst in the civilized world.
And thanks, I’d prefer to hold onto what little personal freedom I have.
Kim simplly cannot ride public transportation in Texas. There simply are not enough cuss words in every language and dialect in the world to cover such an “experience.”
Given your conditions, at least for an American car, there is really only one choice for you: 1993-1995 Ford Taurus SHO with the Yamaha tuned V6 and a 5 speed manual transmission.
Big, fast, lots of room and fun to drive. Sadly, they’ll be a long line ahead of you to pay top dollar for any one of them that hit’s the market.
If you want a real sleeper and don’t mind stepping into the early 2000’s, my 2001 Toyota Camry LE had a V6 and a 5-speed manual transmission. I bought it when I came back from OEF and had a 50-mile commute from western Northern Virginia to DC. I had a bit of tuning done on it from a local shop (upgrade the camshafts, switched out the ECU, added a Y-type exhaust and a cold air intake as well as some new brakes (switched out the single piston for a dual piston setup off a Lexus 300). I never had it bench tested, but my best estimate is that it was pushing close to 240hp. I briefly considered adding a supercharger, but life got in the way and I moved on to a much inferior ride.
Not the fastest car on the road, but probably one of the quickest soccer mom rides around. One downside though, it was Graphite Gray. Boring as hell color, but it never got a speeding ticket.
What about a Ford Mondeo (preferably a Valencia built ones, they’re the best production facility Ford has and had, anywhere), or a BMW 525 or 530?
Solid cars, and early-mid 1990s models should be pretty good and reliable if you get one that’s not been used as a boy racer (and those cars shouldn’t be, that’s mostly Escorts, Fiestas, and small block 3-series BMWs like the 316 and 318).
Sounds like some are conflating the ‘computer-talking-to-home’ with ‘computers–in-cars-whatever’ idea. The first is easy to deal with. My 2007 Envoy (used, bought in 2009) came with On-Star. There *was* a box under the rear seat, right hand side. I unscrewed one antenna cable and unclipped one power feed. Voila! (That’s ‘walla’, I understand, in texican.) And no more phone home. Up to about the 2015 year, most cars did not have all-encompassing electronic nav/radio/entertainment displays which were wired to control everything. I understand that for a couple of years after 2015 you had cars which would not work, at all, if the display system went down. (That may not be true, but then again….)
So maybe a more recent car, with the intention of a short victorious war with the internet surveillance brigade, and the chances of a car which will, in fact, continue to actually provide transport rather than heartache and indigestion. I too would not trust a 25 year old car that ‘ran fine when we parked her 10 years ago’.
Were it me, and I were not having mechanical issues with it, I’d drive it until it fell apart underneath me whilst saving money for the next vehicle or the inevitable major repair. Putting my money where my mouth is, I have a 2010 Toyota Tacoma with 384K on it that has very recently developed a head gasket leak. I already have a replacement engine sitting in my workshop, ready to go in when the weather cools off. For now, I just have to add a pint of water to the radiator every 2-3 days. The engine was expensive at $4300 for a complete unit out of a salvaged truck, but still FAR cheaper than car payments.
You may have to drive what you can afford that will be reliable.
That may not be what you want to do, but I’ve spent the last 40 years doing just that.
BTW, my current car is closing on 150k, too, and I’m not thrilled at all with the replacement prospects.
Recommend in the strongest possible terms that you research the electrical issues with those mid 90s mercs.
The wiring insulation was made out of biodegradable material. Heat and time cause the insulation to shrink. It breaks up into little sections, causing shorts that are damn near impossible to trace.
This is a when, not if problem.
The only solution is a complete wiring loom replacement.
Ask me how I know…..
Also, entropy is starting to catch up with those 90s cars. The plastics are becoming brittle. UV and heat are affecting the leather and paint finishes. Things like window regulators are engineered for a finite number of cycles. In many cases those design parameters have been exceeded, meaning regular failure of components.
Ten years ago I bought a 94 500SL. It came out of Japan, one owner with 24000 kilometers on it. Soft top virtually unused. I did not buy it with this in mind, but it was proper concourse potential.
I scrupulously followed the advise to buy the best example I could find.
I did 3,000 very careful kilometers over five years in that car. I was sure that it was an inflation proof way to own a truly great car.
Now, I admit I was taking a “stewardship” approach to this car, eg in five years I never once drove it in the rain, I only took it to Mercedes for work.
My logic was validated when I sold the car for more than I paid for it. What took all the fun out of ownership and put um, considerable strain on my marriage was the fact that over those five years I spent more on maintenance and repairs (of an almost perfect example) than I did on the purchase price of the car.
I’d recommend going a generation older and buying a late 80s or earlier Merc, the only issue I had when thinking about this is that I made a philosophical decision that I would never buy a car without ABS brakes. That ruled out a lot of choices for me.
Kim, I got nothing on offer that will meet all your criteria.
What I do have: I own a 2002 Chevy Avalanche with 350,000 miles on the original engine — the GM LM 5.3L (327C.I.D. displacement for old-school purists) V8. Meticulously maintained, and the top end, where engine issues would first rear their ugly heads, is still as quiet as a church mouse in a convent. These motors are renowned for their durability and reliability.
One like it would maybe pass New Wife’s muster for the “no-pickup” rule, as it’s a 4-door, with lockable cargo bed storage and tons of configurable rear-seat space for even more gear. The engine itself was also installed in like-era Chevy Tahoes and GMC Yukons, which might work better for her, and still with loads of the cargo space you’d like for range trips or hauling a months’-worth of groceries.
The upsides: Remarkable longevity with the engines — as mine has demonstrated, and it’s not the exception. None of the electronic “reporting back to the Mothership” horsecrap as long as the OnStar system isn’t activated, and mine never has been.
The downsides: To start with, nobody who owns one will part with it because Chevy quit building them 11 years ago. Fuel mileage is iffy for your purposes, usually in the ~17M.P.G. range. Mine does better owing to some tuning but 21+ probably won’t happen. Transfer case problems can happen (I’ve been through a couple) although that’s not a consideration if you could find a 2-wheel-drive example; Chevy didn’t build many of those, but they’d probably be easier to find in your neck of the woods. Some of the peripherals can go down too. I’ve replace water pumps, fuel pumps, front and rear main seals and a gauge cluster, air conditioner hose sets and the cooling system hoses, but with that many miles and that period of time, I can’t say any of that has been anything like unreasonable.
Your real deal-killer might be that none of those vehicles ever offered a manual transmission option. I would’ve liked that myself but it was never on the table. And the automatic has often been at least palatable when I’m towing with the truck.