Interesting stuff, this (via Insty):
I Have Seen the Future of Anti-Drone Warfare, and It’s Dirt-Cheap
I vaguely remembered reading something about the Sting a year or more ago, but I just learned today that they’re both dirt-cheap and extremely effective — mostly at shooting down Russia’s Geran-2 one-way attack drones, which are licensed copies of Iran’s Shahed that have caused us considerable trouble in Operation Epic Fury.
Ukraine needs tons of these things, because Geran is essentially a terror weapon aimed in large numbers — currently 100 to 200 per attack — at Ukraine’s cities and infrastructure. Larger attack waves include anything from 300 up to just over 800 Geran-2s in one night.
So the concept behind Sting is simply enough: Make something cheap and fast to build, easy to use, yet still capable of knocking a Geran-2 out of the sky far enough out from its target for some degree of safety.
And the Ukrainians did just that.
Of course, that’s all well and good in a military context, and our own .dotmil needs to hop onto this with all due dispatch, if they haven’t done so already. (I assume they have, but whatever.)
What interests me as a civilian, however, is a solution closer to home [sic], in that these little airborne nuisances can also be used by anti-social elements to both spy on people and, in the worst case, to kamikaze themselves into a target — such as, for instance, your home or similar. Why go to all the trouble of kitting yourself up with a suicide explosive vest or a rifle in order to inflict death and damage on (say) a church or synagogue, when you can essentially outsource the suicide bit to something you hand-built in your garage?
And in the above scenario, how would ordinary people — say, adherents of the Second Amendment — defend themselves or their communities against such nefarious electro-mechanical mosquitoes?
I’m thinking of something like this, of course:
That’s the semi-auto 12ga Browning Silver Hunter (and of course there are less-expensive options because America). This differs from your standard home defense shotgun, say a 12ga Mossberg Maverick 88:
…in that the Hunter is not a pump action device but semi-auto (ergo a higher rate of fire) and it has a much longer barrel (ergo much greater accuracy at distance, ask any bird shooter).
I’m interested in this concept because it raises a couple of practical issues such as the type of ammo that would work best to bring down a drone (00 buck, or perhaps something lighter?). Obviously, a 12ga slug would end the flight path of a drone with spectacular effect, but it has to be accurate: far easier to spread the terminal effect with shot… but which shot? 00 buckshot is excellent, but it also kicks like hell — and getting followup blasts off quickly with said semi-auto action means a quicker target re-acquisition time is necessary. Would 7/8 birdshot do the trick as well? For that matter, would a 20ga shotgun be as effective as a 12ga under such circumstances? (Almost all semi-auto shotguns are offered in both chamberings.)
I’ve owned a 20ga semi-auto shotgun in the past, and I have to say that the effect downrange is almost as effective as a 12ga (if those watermelons and milk jugs are at all indicative), but the recoil was far less problematic.
Of course I think that the Silver Hunter is just dreamy, in so many ways:
…and yes, the addition of a red-dot sighting device may certainly be of assistance (even though I think it spoils the look of the gun).
Feel free to discuss this topic in Comments, of course.
Now, admittedly I am no expert on these matters, but my impression is that a shotgun might be useful to protect your sunbathing daughter from the neighbor’s peeping drone, but it would be entirely useless against an attack by a military suicide drone swarm. You could install a Phalanx CIWS in your backyard and have better luck, but if you are the target, you might still be SOL. (A CIWS points one direction, but a drone swarm can approach from 360 degrees all at once, they’re first target being the gun, then your daughter.) File this one along with the other Red Dawn fantasies that we gun owners seem partial to.
I’d have a long-barreled 940 with 4-Buck, by the way.
I’m with you. It doesn’t matter what your gun could do to an attack drone. You can’t shoot an attack drone – not even one – if you don’t see it first, and how would you do that? They can come from any place in the air, any time of the day. People like me don’t have enough ammunition to learn wing shooting anyway.
It would be more sporting if it worked like skeet, where the intended target gets to yell “Pull!” and it’s only two drones at a time. Gotta say, a full-choke with #4 sounds about right.
Cans of spray paint might work too?
In addition to the bird shot boo lits – If you spray / cover the electronic gnat in paint quickly that stops the camera part of the gizmo from working?
Could get a spray paint that sprays at a higher rate like rust oleum turbo spray paint
A flame thrower would work pretty well too I think. Melt the plastic and fry the electronics of the flying life invading device.
I also think maybe paint ball guns would be fairly good too – one could throw some Paint balls in the freezer to make them extra hard before launching them out of the gun at the flying electronic rodents.
Always good to have options on how to fuck back against electronic warfare. Sometimes low tech shit works wonders to stop the high tech potentially life ruining flying terminators.
As always, YMMV
The weak point in the drones like in the article is the propellers. They are fragile and necessary. Drones can be very fast. You’re not going to hit one with a single shot, like a bullet or a slug.
In the army they told us how to take down a plane of jet. A squad (12) of soldiers with their M16’s on full auto, properly leading the aircraft, get as much lead in the air as possible and let the aircraft run into it.
One micro BB from a #7 shot on 1 blade (2 blades per prop) of 1 prop (4 props per bird) renders the whole thing useless. So yeah, a 12ga autoloader with a 7 round (or more) magazine is probably the best most civilians can muster.
But, then there’s your own defense drones that will kamikazi the attackers…..
“ But, then there’s your own defense drones that will kamikazi the attackers…..”
Will cheap drones from discount retailers work?
I’ve never owned a drone and not sure I want one though.
I’d rather invest in led , food and water.
Not to be the bearer of bad news but many people are focused on drones as if this is the only threat from the extremist towel heads.
These extremists are vile people. They could hit with any number of attacks including but not limited to:
Driving vehicles into people and buildings (just happened this week most recently)
Poisoning water supplies
Taking our power / electricity infrastructure
Finding a way to stop ports from operating
Hitting medical facilities
My point in this is that – yes the drones are one tool in the tool box – and Ghost is spot on with his response he has experience and knowledge on that
However we all need to look at Ghost and other experienced people for ideas for responses to the many other threats that the world can face from middle eastern extremists.
As a related side note – anti gun liberals – best of luck to those dumb fucks if shit breaks out – because a gun is a great tool to resist deadly shit heads. Maybe the liberals can hand the extemists EBT / SNAP cards and they can all talk over a meal… wait a minute Massachusetts and California and other states are saying “hold my beer” as the saying goes.
Adding to your terrorist options:
Did you ever look at a mall food court? 100 to 200 teenage school kids, all with backpacks, hanging out and milling around.
I’ve been amazed over the past 30 or so years that some disgruntle (Religion of Peas, TDS, trannie psycho, whatever) hasn’t strolled into a food court, put his backpack down, ordered a slice of pizza, casually walked around the corner and – BOOM – 200 dead and maimed kids.
Valine – not too sound like one of the enemy, however, that sounds more like a solution than a problem…
Just gotta have the right people in the room…
I go to the mall near me maybe twice a year.
Lots of hippie liberals and shit heads go to the mall – I want no part of it.
Hey, Mossberg, why can’t we have a 940SPX that’s fed from a box mag holding 10 rds with a 20g option?
My FN SLP is capable of firing 8 shots before the first empty shell casing hits the ground.
Unfortunately, I am not. I can get 7 out of the pipe in that time, but the 8th one eludes me and I am done trying.
Since the effective range of a shotty with #4 is about 40-50 yards, a small fast-moving drone can be tough to hit, however, I’m a believer in the Wall of Lead approach and will give it my all.
Sad to say, but you’re not going to hit and take down a bigger drone with a shotgun before it gets close enough to detonate and take you out. Some of the smaller drones, like the US’s Switchblade? Maybe. The “recreational grade” drones with grenades the Ukrainians came up with first? Yes.
IF…IF…you are standing there with the shotgun in hand, looking the right way, ready to shoot when it comes.
The biggest problem is going to be knowing the drone is inbound.
Perhaps someday someone will come up with a directional EMP gun that would be usefull for frying the circuits controlling the drone at a distance, but then that emp gun would do just as well frying the computer chips in your car, your phone, your TV, and your pacemaker…
Shotguns don’t have the vertical reach to reliably take down a modern drone flown tactically.
They’ve been used effectively in Ukraine to knock down the smaller FPV suicide drones before they can successfully Kamazake into a soldier.
But beyond that, yes. Quite limited.
I’m wondering when or if the US military may start developing and deploying something like a micro-seawiz; say one that uses 12 gauge as an automatic point defense system on things such as tanks, Bradley’s, self mobile arty, ect.