…about that guy in Houston who turned Replica Robber into Swiss cheese: from the sound of the gunshots and the zero recoil, I’m thinking a small-caliber chambering — 9mm Luger at best, more likely a.380 ACP or even .32 ACP.
Which means he had to empty his mag to get the thing done (for the moment, we’ll ignore the coup-de-grâce shot right at the end).
And here’s something we all need to acknowledge: when shooting a handgun in such a situation, bullet size matters. Even velocity is not as important, because as all the smart kids know, the difference in velocity between (say) a .38 Special and .357 Mag bullet — when fired from a short-barreled carry revolver — is negligible. You’re still left with a .36″ projectile to do your dirty work.
As hunters of dangerous game animals also know, you don’t use a .270 Win cartridge to hunt buffalo, even though its velocity is perfectly capable of penetrating a buffalo’s thick hide. You want impact, and shock — and that comes from a heavier bullet delivered at .270-like velocity.
I’ll explore the personal implications of the above in a later post.
When it comes to defensive shooting the most important thing is putting a hole in the target. Whether a miss is 3/8″ in dia or 1/2″ in dia is meaningless. I likes my 92FS and for 20+ years I have been hitting more than not with it.
I have learned this at the farm trying to put down a sick cow using a 357 Sig
I put down the animals with a well-placed head shot
But even this high velocity round fails to achieve the desired immediate result
Next time, I plan to use a 44 magnum
The slaughterhouse in the small town where I grew up used .22 shorts to kill the animals. They mounted the equivalent of a zip gun on the end of an old axe handle and would just tap the cow on the forehead with it. Worked every time with immediate effect.
Yeah, my Dad did the same on the farm, with a Winchester Mod 63 semi-auto — just in case he needed a second quick shot, but he never did.
Nonsense.
The 9mm and .45 are almost equal in terms of being able to produce one shot stops. In modern times Bullet construction is by far the critical parameter, and that is largely a function of velocity.
Key words: “almost equal”.
I’ve always felt that there was enough space between “adequate force” and “excessive force” in that when it comes to the personal safety of me and mine, I will always choose excessive force.
Because, in those circumstances, excessive force is just the “right” amount of force.
You may find this interesting; I did. It’s what has me considering a .357 Ruger LCR as a concealed carry option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27wDLjY5JSs
Oh Geez, a Paul Harrell video. There goes my chore list. I’m going to have to binge watch Mr Harrell all day. He’s great! You might get an angry phone call from my missus later on. lol
JQ
My work here is done.
What’s the Houston political landscape like? If it’s Austin-ish, our hero could find himself in the crosshairs of a Soros-approved jackbooted cockroach. Even in a favorable jurisdiction, he may still need to step up & pay for a decent lawyer.
Houston itself is mostly lost, same as Austin. Get 5 minutes out of Harris county into one of the suburbs and you’re pretty safe.
Confirmation bias, Kim.
I get it. The .45 is perfect, made by Saint JMB himself. Nothing else has, or will come close. It’s a magic talisman that just needs to come near the bad guy to immobilize him.
The actual performance difference between .45 and smaller rounds is negligible. It’s not non-existent; it simply does not matter, statistically. Comparing the .270 to the 375 H&H or some such is not relevant. We’re talking small, slow slugs coming from short barrels, usually at close range.
There’s a quantum difference between the class “pistol” and the class “long gun”. Order of magnitude. And when you zoom back to look at the data, the marginal differences between the pistol calibers is just that, marginal.
Some perform better. Some perform worse. Some perform much worse, but as a matter of statistics, the lowly .32 does a fair job of stopping and killing people. In a vast majority of real-world shootings, the .45 takes 2 torso hits (1 and a fraction, actually) to stop a threat. The .38 also takes one-and-a-fraction. The .32 takes one-and-a-fraction.
Are there odd outlying cases? Of course. And when you focus on the odd cases, you confirm your bias against “Europellets” and other small calibers.
Look, you do you. You don’t feel comfortable unless you’re carrying a 110-year-old design pistol in a hand-cannon caliber? Great! Just do it.
But you do a disservice to others if your preaching the gospel of Saint JMB causes them to be constantly nervous they’ve chosen an underpowered gun, or worse, they don’t carry at all because they’re not comfortable concealing a hand cannon and think everything else is useless.
Please note the bottom line of the story: Whatever “pipsqueak” caliber he was carrying, he got the job done.
FWIW, my daily carry when I’m in a free state is a P64 in 9mm Makarov. I don’t feel undergunned in my caliber choice. I only worry I may run into a riot somewhere and not have enough ammo capacity.
I had to google your FP P64, lol. I was unaware that other manufacturers churned out pistols for that round. It looks like a PP clone, just like the Mak. My first ever pistol purchase was a Makarov. They were dirt cheap when the Russkies were hard up for cash after the wall came down. Wonderful little pistol; it currently resides in my kitchen. How’s ammo availability been for you? I’ve been having a hard time finding anything other than FMJ range rounds for mine.
I order online, from a variety of places. Hornady makes a decent hollowpoint, and there’s steel case Russki ammo available (for now). I buy brass case practice ammo by the case because ranges here won’t let you shoot steel case stuff.
I’m sitting on over 1000 rounds of practice ammo, and a couple hundred Hornady defense rounds.
I also have a brace of CZ 82 pistols in this caliber, 12+1 traditional DA/SA. A better, more shootable, higher capacity gun than the P64. My trouble is holsters.
Caliber Wars?
In 2023?
Handguns poke holes IN things. That’s it.
Rifles poke holes THROUGH things. That’s what you get.
Shotguns blow chunks off things.
If you’ve got a handgun you shoot them in the heart or the head. .32, .380, 9mm, 45 ACP doesn’t matter.
All of the Argle-Bargle legalese falls away in the face of one over-bearing truth:
He needed killin’!
ghostsniper: I disagree. When it comes to a defensive use of gun, the most important thing is _having_ a gun. You can’t shoot a large or small hole in a goblin without a gun, but for most goblins you won’t need to shoot – seeing the gun in your hand is enough to run them off. (And that’s why all statistics on self-defense shootings grossly underestimate the successful use of guns in self-defense.) In fact, if carrying a gun helps you walk confidently while staying aware of what’s around you, you’ve already greatly reduced the chance that a goblin will approach in the first place.
If you shoot and miss, the vast majority of goblins will run as far and fast as they possibly can. If you shoot and inflict a minor wound, most of those that didn’t run away before you had to shoot will be now rolling on the ground crying for their mama.
So when the size of the hole in the bad guy becomes important, you’re already in a one in a thousand situation. (And that’s assuming the hole was poorly placed; a man that can take a hit in a vital organ and keep going for even a few seconds is much more rare.) A well-aimed heavy round has a better chance of saving you in that extreme case, but don’t pick a gun so large or heavy that you’ll be tempted to leave it home, nor a gun that’s so undersized compared to the cartridge that you can’t learn to shoot straight.
The after-action and forensic studies have all been consistent: the major defensive calibers (from .380 to .44 mag) all show minimal difference in actual street performance. They all get the job done with almost identical regularity.
There was even one study looking at performance in the wild on *bear*. Essentially the same thing, even including .380s.
Caliber arguments are largely pointless. Use the one you will actually *carry*. Practice with it. Bullet quality and shot placement are the deciding factors.
I must be an an outlier.
I carry a Browning Black label 1911-380. It is 85% of the size of a 1911. It is light to carry and I can drop it in a pocket if needed. I can hit what I am at and it likes the 102 grain BJHP bullet that Remington calls ultimate defense.
I carry it and I am happy with my chances should I meet a rabid dog it my travels.
Larger caliber pistols I could carry but I king like the Browning.
This is why I carry a Charter Arms bulldog in .44 special.
It was cheap. It’s small, but fits my paws OK. I don’t care about scarcity of .44, I have enough and it’s not a range gun, other than to bust a few caps to stay sharp.
It’s a halitosis range gun that makes a big boom and big hole, and if it gets taken into evidence, I’m out $200.
Speaking of carry stories. I had a brother in law that was an amatuer gunsmith. When he died my sister gave many of his guns to family, and sold the nicer ones. I had another brother in law that was helping her inventory the sooper secret gun stash, and advice her on what to give, what to sell, what to make dissappear in a canoe accident (stuff he probably shouldn’t have had). Among the collection were a few Egyptian berretta clones. When he was telling me about the inventory, he said “I can’t imagine why in the world Jon would own such a thing, unless he expected to throw it in the river after having to use it.”
*AHEM*
Skidding in a little late, but better than never:
>>”Even velocity is not as important, because as all the smart kids know, the difference in velocity between (say) a .38 Special and .357 Mag bullet — when fired from a short-barreled carry revolver — is negligible. ”
Eh…not so fast.
Old myths die hard, but Captain Science & Metrics prevails:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/