Here’s a fine tale of woe:
When I bought the safe, I chose a Sargent & Greenleaf electronic lock because it was much faster to open than a dial lock, and I was in and out of the safe a lot, so I appreciated the convenience. This time, however, I hit the combination, and the numbers beeped when I keyed them, but I didn’t hear the “wearnt-wearnt” of the locking bolt moving. Just a “wearnt” sound, and no movement.
No worries. Probably just needed to change the batteries. Swapped them out with brand-new Duracells, and the keypad beeps sounded fine, but I still heard just a single “wearnt” sound after the combination. And the handle wouldn’t turn. Hmm.
So in comes the Larry The Locksmith, who gives it a going-over, and:
“The lock mechanism is dead. Happens with the electronics. Sometimes they just quit. And we can’t get replacements these days because the boards are sourced out of China.” There weren’t any in the U.S., and there was no prospect of any becoming available for years.
End result?
…plus a locksmith’s bill for drilling and installing a new lock: $1,100.
Not so convenient in the end, was it?
Here’s my problem with all this electronic shit. Occasionally, it acts like a sheep. It just says, “Ah, fuck it,” and dies.
My various safes all have keys, whether ordinary-looking keys (a.k.a. “pin-tumbler lock”) for the cabinets (ammo etc.) or for Ye Olde Gunne Sayffe, cam locks.
Here’s the secret about all this. All safes are inconvenient and time-consuming to get into: that’s just the function and nature of the beast.
But I’ll take fumbling with keys and their operation — cam locks are a royal PITA — over random entombment — via electronic locks — any day of the week.
My real choice would be an old-fashioned combination lock with a fallback key mechanism, but they’re finicky to work — almost as bad as one of the above — not to mention beastly expensive because they are, after all, precision machines. Here’s the ultimate compromise, also from the abovementioned company:
Never forget: if someone really, really wants to get into your safe, they will. What you want to do is make it as time-consuming and difficult as you possibly can.
If you’re consumed by some fear that you might be attacked and have to go for the guns, then don’t lock all of them away. Have at least one gun close to hand — bed, office, workshop, wherever you feel the most vulnerable — and deal with whatever problems this may cause. (Small, inquisitive kids? Teach them about gun safety, and either hide the guns or put them out of reach. Whatever works.)
And finally: don’t trust electronic technology to work faultlessly all the time. Sometimes, old-fashioned mechanical just can’t be beaten.
Team Mechanical here. Combo lock on my gun safe.
Yup, and this is why in 2018 when I bought a safe, I got a Liberty with a DIAL LOCK.
On the floor, it had one of those S&G electro gizmo bullshit locks.
I told the salesman I wanted a regular dial lock installed.
Small upcharge to change the electro bullshit to the dial, I didn’t care. Shit works. Period. NEVER had a problem with the dial. Even though I am in my 40’s, likely i’ll be taking my dirt nap and this dial will still work for whoever inherits my shit.
I DO have a smaller safe with an electro lock that is like 12 years old. It has a KEY backup.
# BATTERIES BELONG IN ELECTRONICS NOT GUN SAFES
# ITS A TOOL, NOT TECHNOLOGY, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
By the way, does one get a new door after all those holes are drilled?
Or do you fill the holes with something? Steel balls? Melt them in?
That door looks like shit now with all them holes, just sayin…
Another thought, the electronic gizmos on these safes are made in china by the CHI COM’s (As Rush Limbaugh used to say, the CHI COM’s aka Chinese Communists).
I wonder if this cheap prone to fail electronic shit is added to safes ON PURPOSE???
Maybe the Chinese Communist Party in in cahoots with the Communists we have here in America (Aka the Democrats and RINO’s).
# FUCK ELECTRONICS ON GUNS OR SAFES
Kim – just an fyi –
The dial with the lock on it – the lock on those dials does NOT open the safe. It is a lock to keep the dial from spinning.
That way the thought is that a criminal can’t spin your dial if they knew the combo
Now I don’t have that lock on my dial it’s on more expensive safes than I have. And I find that feature not that helpful.
Someone breaking in will cut the safe open like a can of food using an angle grinder I’d try want to. Most safes under 20,000 which is what most of us poor schlubs have, have thick enough metal to deter many thieves but thin enough still that it can be cut through if a criminal wants to spend the time.
Your correct above in that a safe is just a deterrent in a way.
“ My real choice would be an old-fashioned combination lock with a fallback key mechanism, but they’re finicky to work — almost as bad as one of the above — not to mention beastly expensive because they are, after all, precision machines. Here’s the ultimate compromise, also from the abovementioned company:”
I think that one is likely the other way, the key is a day-lock key. It’s for exactly the situation he described, where you are in and out of the safe often in a day. The idea is that you can open the combination lock when you arrive at the shop, and then lock it back with the day key. During the day, you are in an out of it with a simple key, but the main combination lock is unlocked. At the end of the day, you spin the lock, and the main combination lock is now set for the night.
Sir,
As I stated “ The dial with the lock on it – the lock on those dials does NOT open the safe. It is a lock to keep the dial from spinning”
Then you state “ The idea is that you can open the combination lock when you arrive at the shop, and then lock it back with the day key. During the day, you are in an out of it with a simple key, but the main combination lock is unlocked”
Again. The dial is locked or unlocked using the key. The dial. If you unlocked the safe – and then locked the dial – the safe would still be OPEN – whether the dial is locked or not
If you have the dial opening procedure done – then a simple turn of the handle on the safe opens or shuts the bolts within the doors – whether or not the dial on the front is locked or unlocked.
If you use a safe with a lock on the dial as you described above – don’t be surprised if the shit in your safe pulls a disappearing act one day – abracadabra.
But you do you. Good luck with using your safe the way you described sir.
My safe is my detached home office and it has everything I hold valuable in it. The whole thing has numerous layers of security and ultimately there are no combination locks.
I just never understood the idea of letting a bad person into the building, but preventing them from stealing the guns.
I don’t want the motherfucker on my property, let alone in my building!
Ghost,
You are awesome. I imagine this storage building is kind of like that room Arnold has in the movie Commando – just – not a room in his house but a separate building as you described.
That’s cool. I aspire to own a collection big enough to fill a building separate from my house one day.
You have the best post of the day.
Happy July 4
Ghost – also
I’m NOT saying I would ever do anything like what I am about to describe of course but…
If the rioters and trouble makers (like those masked hooligans from An QUEEF UH or WE ABORT MORE BABIES THAN ANY OTHER PEOPLE BUT OUR LIVES MATTER – are on their way to causing a ruckus in your neighborhood – here is a little defensive Anti personnel advice / tip
Take a cheap garden hose the length of the area you want to protect. You want those cheap as hoses that are super flimsy. Pole nails every inch in many directions along the length of the hose so the nails stick out (don’t worry this hose ain’t for watering the missing flowers any more after this modification)
Then lay the nail filled hose along the perimeter of the area you want to protect.
Let’s just say this might work as a fantastic alarm system.
Any trouble making assholes will surely let you know they have arrived when they interact with this fine homepage piece of security equipment.
Oh and unlike condoms – this hose security system – you can double and triple up for extra protection.
First, a big NO on electronic locks; they fail, and fail HARD; plus, when the keypad starts showing wear – because the same buttons get pressed every time – it makes it easier to break into the safe by figuring out the combination. Not so much a problem for a burglar, but your kids, and some of their friends, may have enough IQ points and time on their hands to do it.
Second, there is not a safe on this planet that cannot be broken into if the attacker has tools and enough time. Which is why if you have a safe you need some sort of alarm system, preferably a monitored alarm with at least a couple indoor cameras, to limit how much time the bad guy has inside your house. Professional burglars are rarely inside a house longer than 4 minutes, amateurs 10-15, teenagers are stupid enough to spend hours.
Hidden safes are best, if no one knows the safe is there they cannot attack it, but in every case it needs to be securely anchored. If any safe can be pushed onto its back it won’t last longer than 5-7 minutes.
Third, Kim is right – if everything is inside the safe you’re defenseless.
I have no idea why all of you have gun safes, I thought we all lost our guns in that epic canoe outing.
As our host admitted, anyone with time and power tools is going to get in. So I went el cheapo and just got the basic sheet metal locker style, ala the Stack-On gun safe. Bolted to the wall, in a closet where it’s tight enough that you can’t really get at it using a crowbar. It’s good enough to deter children, the occasional guest, and the snatch-n-grab meth addict. Otherwise that professional who thinks he has all the time in the world better hope I don’t come home early.
I worried about about fire-proof until I read some stuff that said those fire-rated safes really aren’t fireproof. They’ll hold out for some time but eventually the fire will get hot enough that anything inside the safe still gets ruined. So, anyway, there’s enough gun powder in that closet for my reloading that I probably shouldn’t worry about fire anyway.
There are several good information sources for locks and security:
the Lock Picking Lawyer,
Lock Noob,
Bosnian Bill, and others.
I don’t think this changes what’s already been said…
I just use a couple gun cabinets with key locks. The theory being that a thief who knows what he is doing will get into a safe anyway, but it isn’t like my modest collection would be worth such a thief’s time. And I have an alarm system and a low crime area, and a dog.
My big gun safe weighs too much to move, and has a door that’s not quite bank-vault thick (the walls are thinner material). The lock is an S&G dial which requires you to turn it clockwise (4) times to the first number, counter-clockwise (3) times to the second, then clockwise (2) times to the third, and then back counter-clockwise again feeling some minor resistance until it stops. Then open the door using the big lever. It’s complicated enough that I stuck a small diagram (without the actual numbers, of course) on the front of the safe to remind me how to open it.
I used to have two of the Homak-brand sheet-metal gun lockers, but I’m down to one now. I used the wrong key (the tubular type) on one and it jammed immovably into the lock. I called a local locksmith, and his advice was to just pry the door open with a crowbar since it would cost more to have him come out and drill-out the lock than the safe was worth. I am far more impressed with those little lockers since it took me 3 hours of intensive, very loud, bashing and prying that door open And that despite the fact that I unlocked the bottom lock and had a good crack at the bottom of the door from which to start. Unless a burglar is very certain that no one will be coming home for a while, these less-expensive gun lockers work very well for the casual tweaker looking to pick up quick cash, jewelry, and electronics from a house-breaking. I replaced it with a Stack-On gun locker that uses a regular-style key. Homak, amazingly enough, was able to use the key-code from the “Ace” lock on the door of my other gun locker and replace the key that had been destroyed in the wrong locker.
With regard to fire ratings, those ratings assume a certain temperature for a certain period of time followed by immediate exterior cooling. Not terribly realistic for the upper floors of a house. But having once lost almost everything I owned when my apartment building burned to the ground, I can safely say that a big, heavy gun safe will probably fall through the burned-out flooring and into the basement or crawl space (unless you’re slab-on-grade) which should be filled with water from the fire hoses. And some gun safes have the “inflating” door seals in the event of a fire, so they’re even reasonably water-tight in that event.
My Coast-to-Coast-brand Mossberg 500 was in a pile-lined gun case in the closet when the floor burned out and fell into the basement. Three weeks later I was there when the crane excavating the stuff for demolition hit that strata and I got the operator to pause while I scrambled down into the stinking water-filled foundation and started throwing stuff out, including my camera case and the shotgun. Mold had grown under the varnish of the buttstock, but the receiver was in perfect condition after cleaning. Unfortunately I apparently hadn’t well-oiled the exterior of the barrel because it was pitted, but the bore was clean and bright. So well-oiled firearms can survive a lengthy period of time submerged, and as long as the interior of the safe or locker doesn’t get too hot, that’ll work out okay, too.
“ My big gun safe weighs too much to move, and has a door that’s not quite bank-vault thick (the walls are thinner material).”
A cheap angle grinder from the Chinese tool store (rhymes with BARBER STRAIGHT) will cut through most 14, 12 and even many 10 gauge steel walled safes with ease. Maybe on the 10 gauge you have change a blade during the cut once but you will cut through and open the safe in a can opener style like a can of tuna.
Until you start getting into double wall safes (multi layered steel) that is 8 or 7 gauge – you only buy some time with 14, 12 and 10 gauge wall safes
That being said 14, 12 and 10 are still deterrents for most of your typical smash and grab theft.
The weight of the safe is theatre. Sure it keeps the amateur thieves from carrying your safe away and opening it somewhere else – but if you ever are burglarized by a smarter determine thief – that has even a cheap ass angle grinder – your collection will be re distributed to said thief in short order.
As many people mentioned – multilayered approach is the best. Networkable security cameras, and deadbolts in addition to regular door locks on all doors is affordable by the average schlubs like us loyal readers of Kim’s – and while not undefeatable by skells- they buy time.
The hope is that you house is just enough of a pain in the ass time wise and effort wise balanced that the average their says, the cops, or worse, the pissed off homeowner themselves, will get here while I’m in the process of breaking in before I get anything of value, fuck it, not hitting this house.
A funny interpretation of that in an exaggerated and comedial example would be the movie “Home Alone” where the kid outsmarts the 2 fools trying to burglarize his kids with cheap items setup to make the house a pain in the ass to break into. And the true part of that film is most, not all of course, but most average criminals are not MENSA members.
YMMV
No electronics here either. My safe is an EKR brand, built for me by Erik K. Ronning in his one man shop in Chico, CA back in the 90’s. The key in the dial is called a “Day Lock”. On the final spin, the key slot stops at 7 o’clock, lever handle opens the safe. I can close the door, lock the handle, then reverse the dial a bit to bring the key slot to 6 o’clock. Use the key to lock the dial in place along with the lever. Now I can just use the key for the day to open the safe instead of spinning the combination every time.
Kids. By all means, secure the guns. Also, remove the mystery. Told my kids they could see any gun they wanted anytime. Only rule was I had to be there to hand it to them and then put it back.
And yes, do not lock up ALL your guns. At our house, now that the kids are long gone, well, let’s just say there are “choices”.
We have scattered around the house a few of the older-style “V-Line” sliding-drawer “safes”. They are bolted to something, and are opened with a Simplex push-button mechanical lock. Enter the code, twist the little knob, and pull on the drawer. The lid pops up when fully opened (spring loaded) to give access to a foam-padded (bottom of the drawer and underside of the lid) storage area for stuff. The ones we have will hold a full-size Government model 1911 with a couple of spare magazines.
One of them is bolted to the nightstand right next to the bed. Every night I punch in the code, twist the knob, and just slightly pull it out. If something adverse happens in the middle of the night I just slide the drawer open and I’ve got my hand on a cocked-and-locked, one-up-the-spout .45. Every morning I slap it shut, twist the know, and it’s secured. On the same nightstand is a 2-D Maglight in case the power has been cut. All of them in the house are set up for the same code so there’s no confusion.
These are NOT intended to prevent burglary; with 10 minutes and just a sledgehammer (or even a big enough rock) you could destroy the nightstand and open that thing up. They are intended to prevent unauthorized access by others, and are perfect if we have visitors with children.
I will admit that I have an electronic safe, but it is cheap enough that you can pull the keypad off and turn the lock with a long key. And the top of the safe would open with an angle grinder like a tin can, but unless you’ve paid $5k or put gypsum board in the top, your safe will too.
My safe is a fireproof box with a lock, not a 30 minute box….