From Bill Hoge, in discussing POTUS’s plan to close over one hundred I.R.S. offices:
“Why do we need taxpayer assistance centers? Why are our taxes so freaking complicated that people with graduate degrees have to fork over thousands of dollars to their CPAs because the tax code is so convoluted that only a full-time tax nerd can figure them out?”
That’s a really good question. My favorite story about the I.R.S. is the one where someone called a few of these “assistance centers” because he had a problem with something on his return. Every single one of the centers gave a different answer to his question — in other words, the I.R.S.’s own staff couldn’t navigate their way through the code.
I remember Mr. Free Market’s tale of paying his income tax in Hong Kong, back when he lived there (pre-CCP takeover). Every December he would go to the local tax office with the HK equivalent of an IRS Form 1099 from his employer (which stated only that his salary was $x — there were no deductions or withholdings whatsoever). He would then write out a cheque for 5% of that amount, the clerk would stamp his 1099 as proof of payment… and that was it.
Frankly, I would have no problem with paying a flat (and fixed-forever) tax rate of 7% on that basis. (“Why 7% and not 5%, Kim?” Because unlike Hong Kong, we need to pay for things like naval carrier groups and interstate highways, which I like and support). I would even support paying 7% of my Social Security, as long as everybody — including welfare recipients — paid the same tax rate on gross income, without exemption (or deductions). Only if you have skin in the game should you be allowed to vote on the subject, e.g. raises to the rate, which I’d want protected by a Constitutional amendment anyway.
Feel free to explain to me why I’m wrong. Good luck with that.
When Belgium gained indépendance only those that payed taxes a a rigth to vote, of course the politicians got rid of that as soon as they could.
Pierre beat me to it. Only net taxpayers (taxes less gov assistance must be positive) should be able to vote.
Ben Franklin is reported to have once said, “when the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”
JC
The biggest reason why your plan wouldn’t work is that the government spends too much. The total of all wages in the US is about $11 trillion per year. The Federal government alone spends $2.4 trillion per year, which is 22% of all wages. In order for your plan to work, that tax rate would need to be 22%.
So if the govt spending was cut by two-thirds… that would leave (carry the 2, uhhhh) $800 billion, or about 7% of total wages.
About 60% of the $2.4 trillion is wages, of which about half is bloat. That would be a good start.
That’s what Elon is talking about.
I read that withholding was implemented back in WWII so people wouldn’t realize how much the Gov’t was taking from them. After the war ended, eliminating the withholding was discussed, but it was turned down as people actually seeing how much money was taken from them “would trigger a revolution.”
I’ve been self employed since 1986. In 1995 I went into an IRS office with $7000+ in cash, legal tenders, to pay my penalty of being a productive human being.
I was told they are unable to accept my money as they have no way to process it and I have to go to the bank and get a cashier check and pay a fee to the bank for providing it.
The IRS would not accept US money.
Next year I will be done with them forever. Finally.
WTF. That’s bullshit.
I once sold a shitload of stock. Some was “short term capital gains”. Paid a higher rate on it than regular stock owned for more than 2 years. I had a mix of shares some bought in less than 2 years and some more than 2 years. Thought Enough taxes were paid in
When I filed taxes the next year I had to pay a small underpayment penantly. Apparently I didn’t let the govt steal Enough from me.
Out of almost 22,000 dollars I only got to keep around 13 and change.
WTF
If I had lost Money on that stock govt would not have cared.
When I made money the govt wants their taste.
This shit is worse than the mafia.
If we did that, there’s be no way to buy votes. There’d be no way to control people’s behavior via tax breaks and incentives. That would completely gut the power of the career political class… which is why it will never ever happen.
Never mind arguing taxing welfare, Welfare should only be permanent for people who are either one of the 3
1 – mentally retarded / physically lame
2 – worked previously and has legitimate disability / health problems
3 – veterans , any health or mental issues – 1 percent to 100 percent – cover everything for veterans – they deserve no out of pocket expenses no matter the circumstance.
Temporary welfare (unemployment) up to say 6 months for people who previously worked and are between jobs
People who are able bodied and able minded need to work or if they choose not to then no free money.
Eliminating able bodied and able minded people from welfare will free up lots of money that can be used elsewhere in the budget.
Don’t even get me started on illegals.
As I said in a previous post about social security that the program needs to be disbanded
Pay out people who paid in exactly what they paid in.
Let younger people invest in 401k, 403B, Roth, index funds etc.
USA currently spends 1.5 trillion a year on social security and 1.6 trillion a year on Medicare and Medicaid. This is not sustainable even if as some people say “just cut the waste and fraud”. The whole program is a fraud. Ponzi scheme
Everyone who works or did work will be much better off with their own money in their pockets instead of having the govt stealing the money.
Any for Anyone who wants to say that social security can be fixed? The USA unfunded liabilities are over 200 trillion. Yes two hundred trillion. That amount of money does not exist. So one way other another, either through hyper inflation where the social security checks don’t buy much purchasing power wise or if someone nuts up in Washington and admits it was a promise that really couldn’t be made in reality, one day the program is going to stop working.
At any rate – to answer your question about taxes on social security? If we do keep it, which I think no politician, even Trump has the nuts to admit it’s a Ponzi scheme, FUCK NO there should not be any taxes on it. That money was already taxed. That’s like the estate tax. And the wealth tax that Massachusetts now has. It’s a 2nd tax on money you have already paid taxes on.
In terms of taxing welfare, I say YES! 50 percent tax rate on all welfare. If the welfare rats don’t like it there is a simple solution. GET A FUCKING JOB. “Pay your fair share” as the liberals love to say right?
# FUCK Freeloaders
# GOVT NEEDS TO STOP STEALING FROM HARD WORKING PEOPLE
IRS should have about 75 percent of staff cut
And zero armed agents.
All that the irs should be is a group of nerdy accountants who spot check and audit and just send refund checks to those who are owed money and refunds
If major fraud is found refer that to DOJ.
You know like US AID kinda fraud.
Anybody who uses the IRS Taxpayers Assistance Centers deserves what they get. That’s like believing that the Finance Customer Service guy at your local New Car Stealership has only your best interest in mind when he asks you to sign the 20 page ” Sales Agreement” in 5 different places proving that you read the whole thing.
I spent 6 tax seasons doing returns for H&R Block as a side Gig. Most of the customers have no clue how the system works. They just want to know how much their refund is and why can’t I use one of those “Tax loopholes” They keep hearing about.
When someone gets a very large refund and I try to explain to them next year they can stop loaning the IRS Money at 0 % Interest and get a larger weekly paycheck they look at me like I have two heads.
…… The definition of a Ponzi Scheme is when the early investors are paid from the proceeds of the current investors. That’s also the exact description of how the Social Security System is Funded. The only Politician who apparently didn’t understand that is Al Gore who kept insisting there was a Big Locked Black Box of Money somewhere.
So long as we agree that the “Gross Income” on which taxes are to be paid are net of actual, proper business expenses.
Much of my “retirement” income is from residential property rentals. I have mortgage interest to pay, repair bills, property taxes, utilities et endless cetera.
Much of my retirement freedom involves fixing, cleaning, painting and/or replacing stuff that dumbass tenants have wrecked, dirtied, lost or stolen.
I’d be a whole lot happier camper, (and less prone to revolution) if the income tax on SS benefits goes away.
Let’s see; tax my money when I make it, then tax the benefits when (and if) i receive them?
Might as well be dealing with the Mafia…
The federal government has no business whatsoever levying taxes on any citizen or organization. Charging tariffs on foreign exporters of goods and services is fine, but every penny the administrative department needs to carry out and enforce the will of Congress and of the courts should come from the States and territories; and the States can raise those funds in any way they care to, short of interfering with interstate commerce.
Folk who don’t like the tax structure of their State are free to vote by ballot or by foot.
.
The only things that concern me about a flat tax is that the income tax must be abolished completely so that the government can’t just use the flat tax as a new tax in addition to the income tax.
The other concern I have is what do we do with the out of work people at the IRS, tax attorneys and the accountants. I’m sure they go learn to code for computers or turn a wrench on the oil fields and such.