My acquisition of an AR-15 “pistol” (above) generated more than a few comments, but the one that interested me the most was this one:
Your friends are logically planning for group support. They’ve got your back, and you’ve got theirs.
Armies standardize platforms and calibers for a reason. Sometimes, that’s a compromise.
The scenario in question is a group defensive action, and one of you runs out of ammo. If it’s you, and you’re the one shooting .375 H&H, you’re just outta luck. If it’s your best friend, and all you’ve got is 7.62×39, he’s dead. Because you won’t give up your outdated niche calibers.
Harsh, but true.
Then again, I remember back when 7.62x51mm NATO was the mainstream, and the .223 Rem was the varmint-appropriate “niche caliber”. But that’s not the point.
Frankly, knowing my friends as I do, if there were any suggestion of a “group defensive action”, I know that each of them has at least one “spare” AR-15 poodleshooter to hand me, and let’s just say a sufficiency of ammo to share (actually, they singly and collectively have enough ammo for about a company of troops let alone just me, but let’s not go there). I think we’re covered, in that regard. (Oh, and by the way, if they happen to be at my place when the SHTF, let’s just say that I have the means to do the same for them, just with a sufficiency of 7.62x39mm as the “common” ammo, and the necessary guns to shoot them.)
What worries me is if I’m flying solo in a SHTF scenario. In that dismal eventuality, the ammo-intensive “spray and pray” mindset is never going to be an option for me — my habit of “making every shot count” dates back at least half a century, and is unlikely ever to change. And I practice, endlessly, to ensure that I have the ability to support such an activity.
In that scenario, my go-to gun — if I have the time to make the choice — is always going to be an AK / SKS-type rather than an AR simply because when it comes to self-defense, I always want to be absolutely confident in my weapons.
I ditched carrying 9mm pistols for that precise reason — because I always felt “under-gunned” with the High Power despite its 15-round mag — and now I carry only 1911s or (if I’m feeling like a change) a .357 Mag revolver. And I understand that in these modern times, both of these gun types are “quantity-deficient”, ammo-wise. To compensate for that, I just have to carry sufficient backup magazines / speedloaders (which I do) and practice reloading of same, which I also do; the latter activity for something like an hour every single day of the work week, using empty mags and / or dummy ammo for obvious reasons.
As for the long gun option: rest assured that my pack-out ammo load is sufficient to inflict a considerable reduction of numbers in any goblin horde I may encounter. And I don’t want to wound or incapacitate said goblins, or shoot to make them keep their heads down or chase them away or whatever; in that final extreme, if I’m really going to be forced to shoot, then I want fucking death to occur at the naughty end of my firearm.
And my caliber choices reflect that mindset.
Now all that said, as I think about this issue, there is a definite reason to keep the AR-15 pistol: as a practice tool if ever I’m going to be forced into a “group defensive action” with my buddies. It’s all very well to have a spare gun handed to you, but it’s useless if you don’t know how to work the damn thing.
So I guess it’s probably going to stay in Ye Olde Gunne Sayfe. But we’ll see… because if we’re looking at a small carbine (which is what the AR-15 pistol really is), then all sorts of options come into play — such as this lovely thing.
And everyone — my friends as much or more so than many — will have some .45 ACP lying around.
By the way, that insistence on ammo compatibility does not extend to our handguns. Doc carries something chambered in 10mm (because he’s a big, tough guy — no sarcasm or irony, he really is), and CC (who is also big and tough) carries either a 9mm pistol or occasionally a .357 Mag snubbie revolver. Interestingly enough, on a day to day carry basis I think I actually carry more spare ammo on hand than they do. And in a SHTF scenario, I almost certainly have more backup .45 ACP mags than either of them have for their carry guns.
You picked the best comment out of that long list of replies, IMO. And you have a very reasonable response.
I, too, could arm friends with maybe 3 AR carbines and the same amount of 9mm, and load them up with ammo. And if I really start to worry about the SHTF scenario, I can build a few more from kits in fairly short order.
Shoot what you like! For those of Kim’s persuasion, if you want a 1911 pistol, and only want a reliable shooter, and don’t care about the “luxury” guns, do yourself a favor and try a Tisas from Palmetto State Armory. I just got a Tank Commander to see what all the buzz was about ($320, but needed shipping and FFL transfer so $387 all in, but still) and have several hundred rounds through it through known reliable magazines. Not. One. Bobble. Runs like a Glock. Puts paid to the argument the Glock fanboys make about “out of the box reliability”. They are. Ditch the incredible tolerances of the luxury guns, and you’ll find a “military” specimen in modern steels is extremely reliable. Oh, and no MIM in Tisas. I don’t worry about modern MIM, but for folks that do, there’s also that.
Smart move keeping the 5.56 poodle shooter.
1) cheaper ammunition cost for a center fire rifle and it is still available
2) Although on the lower scale of effectiveness, many communists and terrorists have been successfully dispatched with this cartridge
3)being a carbine/pistol build, it can be handy getting it in and out of a car
4) lighter cartridges means you can carry more ammunition. You might need this if you’re alone trying to get home to to CC or Doc’s house
I filled the gap between 30 carbine and the .30 calibers with a Ruger scout rifle in 5.56 this year. It’s more oomph than a 22lr and can be used for most varmint needs. The recoil is mild so new shooters and smaller framed folks can enjoy it while developing better skills. this prepares them for 30/06, 308 and 303.
Enjoy the new rifle!
In tactical situations getting 6 head shots in a row is a rare event. More likely to need suppression fire, getting as many rounds downrange as fast as possible over a sustained period. That means 1 round per second and quick change of magazines because lives depend upon it.
I’m an old dood now so I won’t be doing any more runnin’ & gunnin’. But I have 3 identical custom made AR’s that I built myself and more than 20k of 5.56 so I can do lots of suppression fire while the young doods do the runnin’.
This is how I trained with an M16 so long ago.
Quite. More like sneakin’ and peekin’ for us old pharts. And, just because we’re old, doesn’t mean they’re out of range.
Thoughts:
For .45 acp, FPS tops out at (IIRC) 10″ barrels. This indicates some sort of “pistol” like “carbine” might be the way to go on that. That oughta be good for unarmored problems inside of 50 yards easily. The benefit of small and fast in the form of 5.56 are the armored problems, which in this day and age cannot be entirely scoffed away out of consideration.
FWIW, since I travel around the East Coast with its dangerous patchwork of laws, my trunk gun is a 16″ .357 lever carbine, which complements my current carry piece, and avoids legal complications in all jurisdictions that accept guns in the first place.
Geeky,
You REALLY need to move down to north Texas. Apart from anything else, I need another shooting companion.
Afterthought: for those who don’t know, we’ve shot together before.
Retirement is coming, maybe 5 or so years. We shall see what that brings.
In the meantime, if y’all are going to be in the PA area, do ping me.
“Because you won’t give up your outdated niche calibers.”
Money shot right there. My truck gun is an AR with 300blk upper and several full mags. But, theres also a .556 upper with mags in that caliber.
Because you just never know.
I prefer to think of cartridges like the 7.62 NATO, .30-06 and 7.62x39mm as “legacy” cartridges in that they all have actual, you know, battlefield cred.
In 5 years’ time, when the .300 BLK has gone the way of the .300 WSM, people will still be shooting 7.62x39mm.
Let’s talk about “niche” cartridges then.
Ive got an AR 10 in 7.62 NATO but I got into 300blk really for one reason: suppressor delight. One of my uppers is integrally suppressed. Add the *legal* lightning link, and lo, much fun can be had.
Much ammo wasted, but hell, I dont have kids to put through college, so…
Add a starlight scope, IR laser and east texas wild pigs to the mix, and you can really bring home the bacon. Although i find the beasts too nasty to eat.
I’ve got an AR in 6.5 mm Grendel and somewhere over a thousand rounds. An excellent shooter with a 20″ batrel. A barrel change, and it’ll handle 7.62×39 mm just fine. I need to sell some handguns and get a 5.56×45 mm upper and bolt.
It’s not what you carry that is important, it’s how good you can shoot it.
Take that .45 LC Carbine, remove the thread protector and add a suppressor, now you have a nice compact, quiet means of self defense. The majority of us will not need the range offered by centerfire rifle cartridges in a defensive scenario.