Harry and Jeremy talk about cars in one of the most entertaining videos ever made — and I’m in total agreement with practically everything they say. (Feel free to watch it before continuing with this post, because it will make things a lot clearer.)
Where I’m intrigued is when the discussion turns to the concept of “peak car”, which I’ve alluded to on several occasions: that time when new cars came with sufficient horsepower and a sufficient amount of technology which makes driving enjoyable for the average driver.
The two of them reach a sort of agreement on 2015 as the year when cars reached the apogee of performance/technology.
I have a slightly different take.
I think that “peak car” depends on the brand / model. Here are a few examples to illustrate the point.
Sports cars
1998-2005 Acura/Honda NSX
The car that redefined “sports car” from “that fantastic-looking thing that’s wonderful to drive… when it starts and doesn’t break down all the time” to “that fantastic-looking thing that’s wonderful to drive — period“. All the performance anyone could possibly need, used a manual gearbox, and the only technology missing is satnav. [#retrofit, if needed/wanted]
Here’s the thing: I know that the newer model NSX probably handles a little better than the first incarnation thereof, and is more efficient in terms of fuel consumption, etc. etc. My question is: in the hands of an average driver (e.g. myself), would one even notice the difference? And more to the point: even allowing for inflation, are all those improvements worth the extra cost of the new car?
1996-20002 Ferrari 550 Maranello
After the 550, Ferraris became too big, too powerful and too full of unnecessary geegaw technology. And the 550 was the last Ferrari to offer a stick shift.
The newer Ferraris are undoubtedly more powerful, faster, better-handling etc. than the 550.
But here’s the thing about this: ignoring appearances, we would all know that the 550 is a far better car than, say, a 1960s-era 275 — faster, much better handling, and all that. But are the newer 2020-era Ferrari models (e.g. the F12) that much better than the 550 as the 550 was to the 275?
I don’t think so; and the added complexity of actually getting the newer cars to run does not improve the driving experience (See Clarkson and Metcalfe’s take).
Saloon cars
1994 Jaguar XJ40
The last XJ model produced before Ford turned Jaguar into Fords, the 1994 model was Jag’s highest-quality saloon car, which is why they still command a premium on the resto market. The 1994 model featured a V-12 engine, and its Daimler counterpart was wonderfully named the “Double Six”. I would humbly suggest that the XJ40 was Peak Jaguar. Sumptuous ride and as much power as anyone would need in a family car, it was Jag’s answer to Mercedes and BMW. And speaking of Mercedes…
1980 Mercedes 450 SE (W116)
I would also suggest that the 4.5-liter V8-powered 450 SE was Peak Mercedes (among their luxury saloons, that is). The hydro-pneumatic suspension made an already-comfortable ride an exquisite one (matched only by the similarly-suspensioned Citroën), and the engine provided all the power that this heavy best needed to get up there. And given that the W116 also featured rack-and-pinion steering (a new feature for Mercedes, amazingly), the 450 SE was streets better than its Mercedes predecessors and the equal of any of its competitors. Sure, the modern S-series Mercs are excellent vehicles — but at a price that is more than two-thirds higher than the 450, and whose capabilities are nowhere near 1.66x better. (And we shall not speak of the 450SEL “6.9” with its 6.8-liter engine which demolished any other saloon car of the time and could outperform most sports cars withal. But they made fewer than 8,000 of them. And yes, I’d take one today, in a millisecond. The 6.9 would definitely compare quite favorably to the modern S500 series.)
Harking back to the Clarkson/Metcalfe video for a moment: Clarkson reckons that the original BMW M2 is far better — in terms of driving experience — than the newer M2 model, because the newer ones have just too much electronic crap which take away from the fun of it.
Most tellingly, neither Jeremy nor Harry are interested in buying a new model car of any brand or make (like me). Now I know that they’re a pair of old farts (also like me), but there’s no discounting their love of performance cars and their profound knowledge thereof (unlike me).
All three of us — and I suspect, a great many others — would quite happily take one of the “peak” cars over the latest model from that stable, especially at the prices of yesteryear.
So… which do you think represents “peak car” among your favorite car manufacturers?
I miss my 2002 Honda CRV. Traded it with just under 200,000 miles on it, had like 198 or 199. Should have kept it. Only needed a timing chain cover and some suspension work when I traded it. I bought it used from family around 80,000 miles.
Another good vehicle I had was a 2004 Chevy Impala. Simple. Great vehicle. Today’s GM is garbage compared to old stuff.
For cars I never had but still want and wish for to this day
– Acura NSX if I wanted a sports car. Never had one always dreamed of one. You hit the nail on the head in your post. And it has to be an older one. WTF is up with these newer ones that have electric motors on the front wheels? It’s a sports car.
– Toyota FJ Cruiser. Never had one always wanted one. Fuck fuel economy. This vehicle is about durability and dependability. If I ever hit the lottery I want one of these. If you grab a used one in good condition and dump 20 grand into it (off road tires, new brakes, new suspension, new fluids, new muffler, new battery, replace the lights and polish the lens covers, you will have a way better all terrain SUV than anything you can currently purchase new. 4.0 V6. Very reliable and cool looking vehicle.
– Honda Element. Never had one always wanted one. Some say this vehicle looks stupid, but it is very practical. Simple old design 2.4 natural aspirated 4 cylinder Honda engine. Dependable. Lots of usable room for a smaller suv. If I hit the lottery I want to get one of these and dump some money into fixing it up along with an FJ Cruiser from Toyota.
– First Generation and Second Generation Toyota Tundra. Never had one. Always wanted one. In 2022 Toyota came out with a 3.4 liter twin turbo V6 in the third generation Tundra. I still think the Tundra is nice, and likely better than most other brands made today, however if I ever hit the lottery and could pick any truck, I’d want 2 Tundra’s. one of each of the 1st gen and the 2nd gen. 1st gen with the 4.7 V8 and 2nd gen with the 5.7 V8. They don’t make them like they used too.
– Toyota Tacoma, never had one. Always wanted one. 1st and 2nd gen. Much like the Tundra above, I’d love. 1st and also a 2nd gen Tacoma. The 1st gen I would want the 3.4 liter 3400 V6 and in the 2nd gen while the 2.7 4 cylinder lasts absolutely forever with zero major issues I want the 2nd gen with the just as reliable but way more powerful 4.0 V6.
1990 to 2001 Jeep Cherokee, the regular Cherokee. A few of my friends had these growing up. I never had one. I wish I did. These would drive though any snow easily just as long as they had tires in reasonable shape. Old school. Reliable. Great SUV. No Jeep today compares or even comes close. 4.0 inline 6 cylinder was legendary.
1st Generation Honda Ridgline. Never had one. Always wanted one. The older ones don’t have all the stupid tech of the new ones. No cylinder deactivation or other bullshit. Simple Honda J series V6.
Lexus GX470 – 2003 to 2009. Never had one always wanted one. 4.7 V8. Big ass reliable SUV made by Toyota under the Lexus name (Luxury EXport to the US).
1990’s Toyota Land Cruiser. Never had one. Always wanted one.
I’m sure I am forgetting some vehicle I dream of from time to time.
I work in IT and I think some technology is good if it makes life easier however many times simple things and simple ways are superior. Technology should compliment life and make it easier not complicate life.
I want to drive a machine not a computer down the road. While I would maybe consider a hybrid vehicle for a daily driver in the future, I will never ever under any circumstances buy an all electric vehicle. I’ll drive used beaters if I have to just to avoid all electric if ever needed.
Now while technology is not the sole problem nor root cause of modern days society’s ills my point is that we as a country have more technology in our lives than ever before and that this country is no better off and in fact in many ways fucked up. I’m not suggesting we go all Amish however only technology that makes sense and improves life or makes processes simpler should be chosen to be used. Anything else is just a waste of time and waste of money. And in vehicles extra unneeded technology just adds cost and complexity.
One related topic to mention regarding this post, how easy and how realistic is it to repair a recently made modern vehicle. Let’s focus on 2020 and up, with some honorable mentions of close years.
2016 to 2019 many new technologies were introduced OR expanded to more vehicles.
– Tech that shuts off 4 of 8 cylinders or 3 of 6 cylinders being put into MORE cars than ever.
– Small turbo charged engines
– 5 cameras (one above head simulation that looks like a hot wheels along with cameras all around the body)
– Sensors all over the car hidden under body panels to help with parking, cruise control, staying in your lane, etc.
On the sensors – think about an unfortunate occurrance, accidents.
You get rear ended or side swiped in a vehicle. The vehicle is deemed fixable, by your or the person that hit you insurance. So you take it to a Body shop. They fix the looks of the vehicle. IF they do a good job with the looks, the paint is pretty. The body lines line up. There is not 10 tons of bondo all over.
HOWEVER, what about the sensors? Maybe the sensors worked fine after they were hit, but when the body work was done, they were moved a little millimeter off. Or a wire was touched. Something happened. Yet no lights are on, you think all is good.
A week down the road, maybe a month, your dashboard lights up like a Christmas tree and many problems occur with your safety system or sensors in the vehicle. THe body shop says, he it worked when we fixed it. That issue is age and mileage, not the accident.
You will never know and never be able to prove even if it is the accident.
Now you are out many hundreds or even thousand of dollars, for a problem you didn’t cause, to have your modern vehicle’s electronics issues diagnosed and repaired.
By the way, dealers fucking suck balls, They either overcharge for repairs or do hack fucking work or both.
Many small time mechanics are unable to do more than basic work on modern vehicles (oil, fluids, brakes etc) because they can’t afford the proprietary and / expensive scanners needed for many models due to cost or they just don’t work on enough of the vehicle to make it worth it.
Less places can repair the modern electronics filled vehicles, and cost is VERY high to diagnose and repair.
It could be something simple, but even if the dealer or mechanic willing to work on your new shit finds the problem, are they going to be honest and say, hey just a fuse? Or will they say, Nice ass with a wallet attached, assume the position and rape your asshole via your wallet to OVER pay for their scanner and time.
Another scenario, you bought a 2020 vehicle, and it is 2030. You meticulously maintained it. Washed it. Took excellent care of it. However it is 10 years old, and other than the transmission starting to slip, it is in perfect condition.
So you think, i’ll just spend 5,000 on a new transmission vs 40,000 to 80,000 on a new vehicle. The vehicle otherwise is in good shape.
Then you are presented with a cost you never expected, where labor the transmission price is now 10,000 bucks. And this is not far off… Some vehicles have some VERY expensive transmissions in modern 2020 plus vehicles, costing 6 or 7 thousand or more just for the transmission alone no labor included.
Worth it? That is up to you to decide.
That really leads me to believe that the automakers want vehicles to be like smartphones and computers, throwaway. Run it for a few years, change the oil a few times, and then toss it away and buy a new way more expensive model. Every 3 to 5 years, replace. Rinse and repeat.
Icing on the cake, the govt red tape asshole bureaucrats all whine and bitch and moan how older cars are not green and pollute too much. However, the older vehicles were on the road for 20 years or more with minimal parts repair. The alternate is newer vehicles, more of them, replaced more often, more batteries, more raw materials, more shipping. How green is this new model? Is it really about going green? Are people just stupid? Is this more about selling more vehicles more often?
All food for thought.
I would put the Toyota Supra in there somewhere.
Repairing cars. . . Yeah, took my 2000 Isuzu Rodeo in to my local to have the axle/CVJs replaced. Went back in the afternoon and was told they had spent3 hours trying to remove the old ones. Turns out the mechanic was looking at the wrong you-tube video that didn’t tell him that he needed to remove the plate holding the axle to the differential. . . My old mech(before I moved) had changed the twice without having problems.
This is another issue with dealers.
Many older mechanics with years of experience retired or quit during or after the SCAMdemic.
Not ragging on young people that work, i’m 41, but people 50 and under, it is a mixed bag of what kind of worker you get.
Many times, the washing cars last week is changing your oil and tires and brakes this week. He is a level 1 tech
And the guy fixing the vehicle, the master tech, was changing oil last week.
I recently had the recall done on my toyota for the battery harness. Idiot at the dealer smelled like smoke, had tatoos all over his arms and neck. Looked like a work release inmate. He was polite, but I asked the service advisor to check my vehicle after. I open the hood, new battery holder, metal, is installed. the jacket around the battery (jacket, cover that goes around the side of the battery) is missing.
I ask about it. What am I told? by both the advisor and the “tech”. “Sir that part is not included in our upgrade parts for the recall.”
I said, I don’t care, put it back
“We have to get permission from our management”
I said, you have to get permission from your management to put something back on my car that you took off? If you change my oil, the oil and filter doesn’t come with an engine, would you remove my engine and pour the oil all over the frame?
Finally, the advisor says, politely, “you can go back and wait inside, well move your vehicle back to a bay”
I said, nope, ill wait here and you can put my item back here, right in this lane
But you are blocking one of the two intake lanes for the service dept.
I dont care.
Then, We dont know where the part is, we might have gotten ride of it and the tech just went on break.
I said, cut the shit. Where;s my jacket to my battery? Either get mine you removed or get me a new one, the part is over 40 dollars.
A few minutes later the tech comes back, again, tattoos all over arms and neck, screws in the face, smells and reeks of smoke, polite says, sorry , but we had to get permission to do this. Im happy to do this, but we usually arent allowed to do this.
WHAT THE FUCK????
It will only get worse…
Oh, I should mention, a few years ago I had an axle changed. And a hub, same dealer. That was a joke too.
Anyways, my wife and I both have cars and other than the few times we ride together on weekends, or with family, we drive alone to and from work.
So, one day we go on a long drive. I get out of the car. Brown stain on my pants from the passenger seat. (She was driving my car)
Maybe I sat in something or had an accident? So I change my pants (road trip, overnight, had bags, changed in hotel room).
Next pair of pants, brown stain.
I go and get a paper towel, seat has brown shit in it.
I use a towel the rest of the vaca
the last people in that car was the dealer. Did they spill coffee or something else in the passenger seat?
I called them when I got home.
Oh, we worked on your car over 60 days ago, even if we did spill soemthing, its too long ago, sorry cant help you.
I rented an extractor from a home improvement store and spent hours cleaning that seat until no brown shit came out. Used a drill with a polisher too to agitate. Back and forth, agitate, extract, agitate extract.
Finally got it clean.
Had another issue with the same dealer. Major issue. Brought up the seat.
What did the general manager say?
Ill send you money for the extractor rental.
Never addressed teh other major issue
When I called him I got voicemail, he called me back as I was driving home from work, asked me dates and times, I said, off the top of my head i dont know I have to look when i get home
Asshole played the whole game of “well you called me and you dont know the details?”
I said, do you carry your notes and receipts everywhere you go?
ANd
You called ME this time, I called you but you didnt pick up
Fucking head games these assholes play
Dealers suck fucking balls. Another reason to stay far fucking away from the majority of these new shit box computers on wheels.
If you have to pick a new vehicle, try toyota, honda or subaru.
Yes the dealers still suck, but hopefully you will have to deal with the dealers less than some other brands
I have a toyota, bad enough i had to deal with the dealer a few times.
Saloon Cars: the last year of the Mercury Grand Marquis could be in the group of peaked cars. My ideal car is the last year of a body style before it is re-modeled. It also needs a proven powertrain. They should have all of the issues worked out. I have a 2018 Audi with 96k miles with the original brakes on it.
Add the last year model of the original BMW 318i, 1984. I had a gray market 318 with the German spec drivetrain but everything else American market spec without a cat. I got 32mpg in Germany that would easily jump to triple digit speeds when floored. I had to add a cat to pass US emissions. It became a slug and got 20 mpg. I removed the cat restoring the power and put 230k miles on it doing only normal maintenance. I sold it for what it cost me to ship it and the CAT. The guy that bought it drove it 10 trouble free years till his son totaled it.
Some brands peaked earlier, like my Oxford Green, sand beige interior 2001 BMW 740iL. It was a retirement present from me to me in 2003, just off warranty. While maintenance is expensive, it’s doable, and the thing is a joy to drive – quiet, quick, responsive, roomy and very comfortable, with just the right amount of extras – navigation, one-touch up and down all four windows, ABS, and 16 way adjustable memory seats. The seats are so comfortable, I’ve used them as a refuge, even sleeping in it, when my sciatica rears up. I found a good, honest mechanic shortly after purchase, and he tells me he loves working on my car, because it has only six microprocessors, not the 100+ the current cars have, and he can quickly ID and deal with whatever problem I bring him. Its 50-100 acceleration is phenomenal, yet on my last trip to Florida, I got 27 mpg on I-95 at 70-75 mph. With a few exceptions, BMW really went downhill, putting out some genuine crap after this car. I wouldn’t have one if you gave it to me.
As long as I can get parts, this is my forever car.
https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2015/01/18/17/01/2001_bmw_7_series_740i-pic-1458510769225814927.jpeg
I loved my Jeep Wranglers. I had a 1992 YJ model and traded it in for a 2003 TJ. Dove both of them for about a dozen years and about 165,000 miles each. God, I’d like to find a used one of either now. I would touch a contempory Wrangler with a ten meter cattle prod. Every time Jeep updates the thing it gets more car-like, especially the interior. Gauges replaced by the “infotainment center” and so forth. And the try to “streamline” it a bit more (rounding off the corners, tilting the front grille…) Get over it. My YJ was about as aerodynamic as a brick. The TJ was slightly more aerodynamic than a brick. Its a Jeep, that’s the way it is, don’t fuck it up. But they did, and are. And I hear their reliability has gone way down. sigh. One day….
I think automobiles peaked in the early to mid 2000s: sweet spot for tech, but not too much. I still would have problems fixing anything under the hood. I have given serious consideration to buying an early 1970s (before they installed all the fuel economy and anti-pollution crap) Ford F-150 or F-250. I used to do my own wrenching on that era vehicles.
Basically any BMW from about 2000 (pre Chris Bangle). The 740 was a masterpiece of auto design, elegant, comfortable and great performance. They put the cherry on top with the 5 litre v12.
The v8 5 series was for me the perfect blend between size, practicality, performance and comfort. I had one (540i) and still regard it as the best all round car I’ve owned. God I wanted the m5 from that generation. I bought an e36 three series new in 1999. Compared to the Aussie domestic cars I’d been driving (company fords and gm cars) the beemer was a revelation. Zippy, comfortable leather electric seats, sunroof, mag wheels, cruise control, brakes, handling.
I went on to a M roadster, a z3 with an M3 3.2 litre straight six. As a pure driving experience that car was just about perfect. 325 hp in a car that weighed 1400 kilos.
There was something in the water in the mid 90s in Germany, the w140 S class were also excellent cars. I’d happily drive one today. The R129 sl merc (90s convertible) were the last Mercs built to a standard. Stunning cars.
Special mentions: 200 series land cruisers. Rolls Royce Shadows. 1989 3.2 litre Carerra with wide body. Ferrari 308 or 246. Jaguar xj12 or series one E type. Series 2 Mazda mx5.