I see that Charlie Kirk’s young widow Erika has (unsurprisingly) gone all Christian and forgiven the loathsome little shit who murdered her husband.
I can’t find it in myself to do that, and it’s not because I’m not a Christian.
You see, “forgiveness” has gotten a bad reputation of late, and that’s because we see it all over the place. Judges “forgive” career criminals and release them back into society; prosecutors of the Soros persuasion refuse to prosecute crime as they want to “forgive” the criminals because of their race or ethnic background (or political leanings), and even parents want to “forgive” the criminals who raped their daughters or sons.
Erika Kirk has even asked not to go after the death penalty for her husband’s murderer:
“I’ve had so many people ask, ‘Do you feel anger toward this man? Like, do you want to seek the death penalty?’ I’ll be honest. I told our lawyer, I want the government to decide this,” Erika shared.
“I do not want that man’s blood on my ledger. Because when I get to heaven, and Jesus is like: ‘Uh, eye for an eye? Is that how we do it?’ And that keeps me from being in heaven, from being with Charlie?”
Yeah, well this is why our society has delegated the business of revenge to a third party — in this case, the state of Utah — because it eliminates the personal from the process and hands it over to the People. And the people of Utah have voted for the death penalty for murder. It has nothing to do with the survivors.
And yes, forgiveness can make you feel your “ledger” is clean and your conscience made pure; but your personal inclinations are not as important as the interests of society as a whole.
Society as a whole needs to be protected from animals like Kirk’s assassin — and I’m not just talking about his own activities. I’m talking about others like him, who may decide to follow his path because there’s no chance that they’ll lose their own life as a consequence. Life imprisonment, in other words, may work to protect people from an individual’s future activities — but it is definitely less of a deterrent for others than a death sentence.
I’m not going to argue the point with people who are against the death penalty per se. I’m also not going to the trouble of looking up what happened to the capital murder rate in states like New York which abolished execution, or in states like (I think) Ohio which reinstated the death penalty. The plain fact of the matter is that the death penalty is a deterrent against murder — the stats pretty much all show that — but even past that, I believe strongly in the concept of vengeance against those animals who have stepped so far outside the bounds of a lawful society that their continued existence is a smack in the face of the victims and their survivors, whether the latter want to acknowledge that, or not (as in the case of Erika Kirk).
Give Charlie’s murderer a fair trial, then hang him. And hang all those who do the same.
Enough of this forgiveness bullshit: it’s time for retribution.
Jesus will not “be like”.
Jesus will “say”.
Nick Frietas had a great take on this forgiveness thing. forgiveness requires repentance by the transgressor. So far that leftist twerp hasn’t shown any regret for his actions
Exactly. Repentence is not part of the concept of pleading not guilty so the state has to do more work to convict the worshipper of Satan by proving every element of the crime of murder.
For Christians, forgiveness is a state of mind and heart, and does not indicate that justice should not be served. Non-Christians often misunderstand that. It’s not being a Soros-funded DA who wants to let the little darlings out on the streets to cause mayhem again. No, it’s to keep the anger from destroying their joy, allowing them to move on. You can forgive them, then still hang them, in other words. The forgiveness is for you, the victim, really, the criminal is fairly irrelevant in the process.
And Christians are largely split (I have no idea of the percentages) on capital punishment. Like you, although a Christian, I’d volunteer to be on this little bastard’s firing squad (hell, I’d pay for the privelege) and I’d sleep like a baby, pleasant dreams every, and go to church next Sunday. Others don’t think capital punishment is, well, Christian. You can make a bibical argument either way, actually.
However, the point is he is not going to BE executed, at least not for another 20 years or so. By the time they off this cockroach, he’ll be in his late forties. What I suggest is they just make no effort to protect him in prison. Convict him, sentence him to the death penalty, then leave him in the general population. I gurantee he’ll be dead inside of two weeks, tops. You see, the genpop criminals have a moral code, believe it or not, and for many it can be a very strict moral code. This little weasel won’t lat long in the genpop. Problem solved. Quickly and cheaply.
I agree the death penalty is a good deterrent, but ONLY when it is carried out quickly. It loses its deterrent effect when the sentence is carried out only when the perp is a sympathetic looking grandfatherly looking old coot who you are depriving of, maybe, 10 years of life instead of 50+ in the case of this shitstain. All the video, the confession, I mean there’s not much to hang an appeal on. When the evidence is ironclad get the trial over with, and then carry out the sentence.
Sigh. Not these days. Leave him in genpop, it will take care of itself.
Completely agree with your first paragraph – Christian forgiveness in situations like this is more about getting the weight of that righteous anger off of your soul and allowing you to move on with your life. That forgiveness should occur roughly 5 minutes after this toad is executed, but if that takes 20+ years then I guess you can do it a little sooner.
Disagree with your third paragraph. I have no idea whether “prison justice” is a real thing or not, having never been in prison. But I strongly believe any punishment delivered should be by the hand of the state, not the hands of whatever convict didn’t get his carton of cigs last week. I don’t think the idea of some gangbanger or mother-raper killing a school shooter to be any sort of justice, or that half the inmates raping him in the ass to be appropriate for the crime. It appears we’ve lost all sorts of control over the inmates and basically just let the Lord of the Flies inside the walls. This simply means any convicts released from prison will be worse than when they went it.
I was going to say about the same thing, but you said it well.
I’m sorry, Kim, but when it takes over 20 years for the State to carry out an execution, the deterrence effect isn’t there. The only thing that’s deterred is that particular criminal from committing any more crimes.
I’m not in favor of public executions because that gives the condemned publicity many of them would relish.
Two appeals within 3 years then leave the courtroom and straight to the gallows.
“I do not want that man’s blood on my ledger.”
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Probably one of the stupidest things any human has ever said.
Death penalty?
The way it’s done now only supplements the bloated judicial industry.
As it was done 150 years ago? Hail Yeah!
The next day, and right out in the open.
I’m a Christian (though not a very good one), and I struggle mightily with the concept of forgiveness. Because I was taught from a very early age that forgiveness = shake hands and be friends and forget the transgression ever happened.
What I mean is, for example if Some Asshole steals all my money in a ponzi scheme, then by what I was taught if I truly forgive him, I should continue to invest my money with him. No. Screw that. I won’t go on a roaring rampage of revenge against him, but I sure as hell won’t trust him with so much as a penny ever again.
I was never keen on capital punishment as an instrument of state policy yet quite comfortable with personal retribution. You grievously harm my family and I will personally do my best to punch your ticket. Oh, life without parole should really be for every minute of the rest of your life. There are folks who arent fixable and should be excluded from society for our protection.
I agree with ralphgizzip (above). Since the accused has survived being arrested, it is the duty of society to give him a swift and fair trial, then execute him as quickly and painfully as we can. I do not know where this crap about “merciful” executions came from.
Here in Arizona, we have a “resident” of our death row who has been awaiting execution for 34 years. Another example of “life in prison” and the death penalty. Why not just give him a gold watch and a pension at this point?
As to Erika Kirk and her decision to forgive Charlie’s murderer, that is her choice to make. I believe any of us in a similar situation would find ourselves searching our souls as to whether we would make the same decision. But she’s right. Let the state decide the assassin’s fate, and do it quickly.
As a card carrying heathen, I can nonetheless respect Christians who earnestly try to live by Biblical precepts as they understand them. Fortunately, this one isn’t Mrs. Kirk’s call to make. Render unto Caesar, and all that. Utah will stick a needle in his arm eventually. I’d prefer the gallows or a firing squad, but I’ll take his rancid corpse however we can get it. Better yet, as someone here has already suggested: release him into genpop and let nature take its course.
I think Utah still maintains the firing squad (though rarely implemented) because in Mormon theology there is the concept of “Blood Atonement” meaning to properly atone you have to have your blood spilled on the ground.
I’m Mormon adjacent, so I don’t know how mainstream that sentiment is amongst Zion’s practitioners, but it is there.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean lack of consequences. We also believe that God puts civil magistrates above us to wield the sword of justice.
Romans 13: But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
We can forgive because God has provided for justice both on Earth and Heaven. When we are in those positions, we must not show mercy to evil done against those we are sworn to protect.
Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent, as a wise man once said. My dad was a Southern Baptist minister and his belief was that Christian forgiveness does not absolve the guilty from the just recompense of their actions. And if the guilty repents, they should accept the penalty for their trespasses by way of atonement to their victims.
Even as an apostate Christian, I recall that Jesus forgave the ignorant and penitent, which became noted by theologians as a condition of the forgiveness. Notably absent is forgiveness for the unrepentant who remain malicious.
Forgiveness may be a way to unburden your own heart, but be careful that you don’t abandon justice in the process.
And as for justice, the $DEITY’s justice in this life is objectively absent, and the hope for justice in the next seems like a heavy dose of Copium(tm), which may or may not deliver. All we know for sure is the justice we imperfect humans soberly forge ourselves.
As an active Christian, I understand the sentiment. God bless you Erika and what’s left of your family…truly.
But I’m not as good a person as you, I’m really at war with myself, because in my heart of hearts I want to see gangs of rednecks, beating the ever loving shit out of every leftist out there, and leaving them dying in the streets. But then there’s the thinking part of my brain, that continually cautions me about being careful, because the weapons I allow the .gov or society to use against my enemies, will eventually be used on me.
This incident has shown me though, that the window for conciliation is fast closing, not because the right wasn’t willing to live/let live, but because the other side refuses to. In Atlas Shrugged, Galt makes a speech where one of the statements is equivalent to “Never let those who do not share your values, use your values against you.” This is where I think we are and how to regard these things. For too long the childish left has kept poking people through the bars, in the anticipation that adherence to some set of principles will restrain them.
Maybe it is time that it doesn’t.