While browsing through Steve Barnett’s foul and tempting website recently, I came across this exquisite little beauty:
…and it triggered, so to speak, this train of thought.
I have to admit that I’ve never understood the appeal of the .410 shotgun cartridge, other than the fact that it’s not a punisher like the 12ga. (For those who are unfamiliar with shotgun cartridges, here’s a good summary.) Some pics, to illustrate what I’m talking about:
I know that many excellent shotgunners of my acquaintance (like Mr. Free Market) just love the little thing — Mr. FM actually calls .410 shooters “showoffs” because shooting clays with a .410 is akin to shooting at them with a .22LR* — and there is no argument that on terrestrial targets (e.g. rats and snakes) the .410 is absolute murder. So as a “recreational” cartridge, I can see its appeal.
I have heard people say that the .410 is a fine “starter” cartridge for youngins, to get them into the swing of shotgunning without the recoil owies.
However, while the .410 is less of a shoulder-smasher than the 12ga, it nevertheless imparts recoil similar to that of a .30-30 rifle cartridge, so it’s no feather.
Please understand that this little discourse does not constitute a hit job on the .410 — anything but — but I have never seen much reason for its use other than as a recreational cartridge, like the .177 pellet.
And I am more than willing to be persuaded otherwise, by people who love the thing.
Of course, there is an alternative use for the .410, that of self-defense in a handgun like the Taurus Judge:
…which as an added bonus, can also chamber the wonderful .45 Colt/.45 Long Colt cartridge (for the purposes of this exercise, the .410 and .45 Colt are dimensionally interchangeable). Here’s a video of the Taurus Judge (executive summary: meh).
Likewise there are “field” options like the Magnum Research BFR, similarly chambered:
…but even with the added muzzle velocity of the longer barrel, I can see little advantage to carrying such a piece out in the wilderness. So, no.
But as a sporting or birdshooting cartridge out of a shotgun? I call on my Readers for their input. Because that Beretta S687 is simply crying out for a good home…
*I should add that Mr. FM’s favorite backyard activity at Free Market Towers is shooting crows with a .410 or .177 pellet gun.
Hie thee over to Kentucky Ballistics on Youtube for some 4 bore fun.
Once upon a time, I shot skeet as much as I could afford. I was a contrary cuss and was using pump actions, meaning that when I had a shot at inexpensive Remington 870 Express models in 28 ga. and .410 priced on clearance, jumped at the chance to complete the set. A local gunsmith honed the full chokes to skeet and the addition of magazine cap weights got them to where they swung well. The 28 ga scores weren’t really different than 12 and 20, but the .410? Yeah, there’s a reason they’ve been called “idiot sticks” on skeet fields. You have to have either actual skill or a great deal of practice and/or training to score well with that pinch of shot. That pinch of shot business should maybe be kept in mind for defensive use, as well.
OTOH, guns that are scaled for the .410 instead of being shoved onto larger frames tend to be slenderly elegant in proportion while being light and quick in the hands, so there’s that. The Beretta in the post is extremely toothsome.
In college, we used a .410 to shoot skeet every weekend. Challenging as fuck, but we got much better with time.
As for recoil, the gun makes more of a difference than the shell. I’ve used my pump action mossberg to shoot skeet and end up with a bruised shoulder every time (I’m a big guy and thus absorb more recoil). Using a competition stoeger over/under which weighs quite a bit more means almost no felt recoil.
I have a few 12g’s and 2 .410’s, if I want to shoot something so it stays shat, I’ll take my single barrel bolt action Anschutz .410 every time.
If you get whatever it is, 1st time, you don’t need more shots or a bigger bore.
By the way, my older brother bought it at a local shop in London when he was 15, (I was 11), for four pounds, ten shillings.
In today’s money £4.50! BARGAIN! (You can work out the dollar comparison).
How many shells did your brother get in change for that Fiver?
He says he can’t remember for sure but the thinks 5 shillings maybe for a box of 50 (£0.25 in new money).
There is a lot of truth and valid info in the observation about the various gauges and their usefulness. I have shot skeet with all of the gauges listed except the 10 ga. which, not being a duck hunter I never had a use for. Being old I gave away my 12 ga. guns and .410 to younger family members and now I am down to two o/u shotguns, one Beretta 30″ barrel 20 ga. and one Browning 28 ga. Citori and for some reason, I think the shape of the stock the 28 seems to have more felt recoil than the 20. One of the nicest little guns I had and let get away was a Remington 870 pump 28 ga. that I sold to purchase another gun because I had the ga. covered with my Browning 28 o/u.
My 11 year old grand daughter will join us this year on our annual dove hunt with her dad’s .410 single shot that I had cut down to his size when he was her age and for some reason he was good at shooting skeet and birds with that little gun. If I had to do it all over I would suggest a small 20 ga. for a young shooter because the .410 is a damn hard gun for shooting dove, not as bad as shooting quail over a good dog but not an easy gun to use on fast birds.
Over 55 years ago I did use a .410 with 3″ shells and number 4 shot killing lots of rabbits, snakes and other critters while walking fields and pastures outside of our small town. On weekends from 12 years old and older on Saturday mornings I would pack a few sandwiches in an Army surplus pack along with a canteen and take off walking and spend the whole day with my friends walking miles and miles shooting small game. In the 1950’s no one minded us walking across their fields and pastures, we were careful about not shooting towards live stock and we helped reduce the rabbit population along with an occasional skunk, raccoon, possum and Armadillo. The .410 worked fine for that but I was soon carrying my dad’s old 12 ga. single shot which had a most satisfactory recoil and a lot more little bits of lead to make each shot count. If I remember right, at that time the shells were priced about the same and local hardware stores would break boxes of shells and sell them to us kids by the single shell which worked better for us.
They would also break some center fire boxes, like .303 British but they made us purchase the whole box of .22 cartridges which were priced under 50 cents for .22 short up to 75 cents for long rifle. My dad would give me a hard time about choosing long rifle because he had grown up shooting .22 short when he was a kid hunting rabbits in the 19 teens for family food. When I was 9 years old I shot my first cotton tail rabbit, my father showed me how to dress it out and from then on I would bring home one or two cotton tail bunnies and dress them out myself for my mom to cook up breaded and fried and served with rabbit gravy over fresh home made biscuits. My grandma who lived not far away and grew up in the post civil war 1800’s, born in 1869 would join us because she loved eating rabbit. We mostly shot jack rabbits which were too tough to bother with cooking and we left them out where the feed coyotes, returning the next day there was seldom more than a small bit of fur where those critters died and the farmers were most happy to see them thinned out.
After I got my first after school/ Saturday job at 14 years I my first paycheck when for purchasing a whole brick of .22 long rifle and I felt as if I were a rich young man with 500 rounds of ammo at one time. So that is my silly little bit of stories about my silly days of old, and doing a lot of walk’n and shoot’n.
A man after my own heart. Spent my high school years (class of ’71) with my uncle’s family on their ranch located on the edge of the old Tulelake lake bed. Had 40 miles of open juniper and sage brush high desert out the back door. Stomped all over the near part of it hunting jack rabbit’s, rock chucks, and ground squirrels with my Remington 581 with a 4X Weaver scope. My most prized gift every Christmas was a brick of .22 LR–the good stuff, Winchester Super-X copper plated.
A couple of years back, when Dick’s (ptooey) got out of the gun/ammo business in Northern Virginia (before they got out of it chain-wide), I bought out most of their .410 ammo section at one store, including all the PDX rounds and slugs. Probably 1300-1500 rounds if I remember correctly. It was all $1 or $2 a box. I still have 80% of it, because a) I only have 2 guns in .410 (Bond Arms Snakeslayer IV, and a old Savage 24 in .22/.410) and b) I never go shooting anymore.
BTW, a PDX round out of a 4″ Bond Arms derringer will shred some meat. It also weight about 3 lbs, so it make a dandy club.
I have no interest in .410. However, choice is good and to those who like it, good on ya.
I do remember the first time I shot a .410. It was a childhood buddy’s first gun. I already had my first gun, an H&R Topper 20 GA. His was also a single shot break open, but I don’t recall now what make it was. We were both around 11 years old. My folks were visiting his folks at their place. We guys went out behind the barn to shoot some clay’s. When offered, I shouldered my buddy’s .410 and let fly. Unfortunately, I failed to notice the shorter length of pull, and that the knuckle of my right thumb was about 1/8 inch in front of my nose. Yeah, that one made my eyes water.
When I worked the retail gun counter at Huntington’s in Oroville, CA we had a Benelli Ultra Light 28 GA on the rack. Dear me, what an absolute magic wand to wave. My lust was somewhat tempered even back then by the price of the ammo. Had I bought one, I likely would have gone for the 20 GA.
https://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/ultra-light-shotguns#specifications
I’m curious how shot patterns behave coming out of the rifled barrels of revolvers. I have only witnessed one example in the field. A buddy and I were deer hunting in high hills to the west of Orland, CA. He packed a short barreled .38 special revolver on his hip loaded with CCI snake shot. Walking down a trail through some brush, we jumped some quail. One of them hopped up on a large dirt clod about 40 feet away and sat looking as us. My buddy slowly drew his revolver, aimed and fired. There were a number of small spurts of dust both around and on the quail. The quail’s reaction was about equal shocked surprise and righteous indignation, and it skittered off into the brush.
Rifled Barrels spin the shot into ever-increasing circles so if you could see the shot it would look like a smoke ring but with an outward spin.
Those pistols need some sort of straight choke to insert, perhaps instead of a rifled “choke”. In a free country that would be a standard option.
Only shotguns that interest me any more are .410 bore. I have the Remington 1100 in .410 and it’s a very mild recoil and sweet shooting gun. Favorites are a Rizzini and a Beretta EELL Diamond Pigeon which I used to limit out on dove on opening day some years back. I’d agree with those who point out that the .410 is not a gun for beginners. Precision is required when you have a shot string rather than a pattern. Additionally I’d also point out that the laws of physics are not repealed with a .410; 7 1/2 shot leaving the bbl at 1300 fps arrives at the intended target with the same impact regardless of whether it was launched from a 12 or .410. Thanks to the master instructors at CMP Talladega I learned how to break clays at 65 yards with an cylinder bore .410 – a pretty neat shot!
Bought a break open H&R .410 at a pawn shop for $49. Didn’t look like it had ever been fired.
It is the *perfect* snake gun. Pretty good on armadillos and other smallish 4-legged vermin also.