Asking The Other Side

Over at Instapundit, Gail Heriot has posted a decent summary of the England-Scotland alliance.  But then there’s this:

In 1979, an effort to establish (or re-establish) a separate Scottish legislature via referendum failed. It did so, however, only because the Act authorizing the referendum required that at least 40% of the entire Scottish electorate vote in favor. While the referendum got more yes than no votes, turnout was poor. In 1997, another such referendum was held. This time it passed, a Scottish Parliament was established, and the process of “devolution” was begun.
In 2014, when an independence referendum was held, it came a lot closer to passing than union supporters would have preferred. Ultimately, Scottish voters went 55.3% to 44.7% in favor of sticking it out with England.

What interests me, and many others, is the fact that only the Scots  voted on whether to leave or stay in the Union, which begs the question:  why did not all  interested parties — including the English and Welsh — vote on separation?

Had the population living south of the River Tweed voted, you bet there’s have been considerable support behind a “Toss the Jocks” movement — Mr Free Market and The Englishman claim that at least two-thirds of English voters would support expelling the porridge-monkeys in a heartbeat, had they been allowed to do so.

Such ravings should be taken with a grain of salt — especially when expressions like “Can we then finish what we started at Culloden?” and “Rebuild Hadrian’s Wall” are thrown into the mix.  Nevertheless, we Murkins should not underestimate the depth of enmity that still exists between the Picts and the Angles even after all this time.  It’s most openly expressed by the Scots, such as when supporting anyone playing England in sporting competitions, but the anti-Jock sentiments in England, while less overt, still run pretty deep.

We can talk about the Welsh and Irish situations on another occasion;  but in the meantime, think of the situation as a (very) civilized Balkans, and you’ll get the idea.


  1. In 1968 my wife and I were on a train from London to Edinburgh and I had a nice conversation with a Scot who told us that our visit was at an interesting time because the Queen and her family would be in town for the week. He also said the people of Scotland, remember this was in the 1960’s, were always talking about breaking away from Great Britain and then when the Queen and her group came up in June the Scots would fall all over themselves kissing her Royal Ass.

    I thought that was a strange thing to say and then I watched it happen as Elizabeth did her royal stuff moving around the town and she had a nice big car to ride around in. The stuff up in the Edinburgh castle with the Black Watch guys wearing their kilts and stuff was kind of neat and bag pipes are interesting and neat for a short time and then the sound of a cat being strangled over a loud PA system kind of gets old, don’t ya know.

    1. Remember that Brenda would be Queen of Scotland if Great Britain separated.

  2. This is one of those extraordinarily rare times that you and I are on opposite sides of an issue. I enjoy my visits to formerly-great Britain and I do enjoy my stays in England, but I can never forgive or forget what they did to my ancestors. I have both Irish and Scots blood in my background so you’ll excuse me if I have a different take on the English of that era.

    What I will say about both the Scots and the Irish is that in modern times they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. I, too, would have preferred that their referendum had gone the other way, and watch Scotland sink or swim purely on its own. And across the Irish Sea, I’m firmly in the camp of 26+6=1. If I were to ever say otherwise, six-plus generations from my father’s side would haunt me for eternity.

    But now here’s where it gets *really* interesting. I’m a dual citizen, U.S. (choice) and Canadian (birth). I was born in Montreal, a unilingual-Anglo in the mostly-French province of Quebec, which has had its own dreams of separation from Canada over the years as I’m sure you know. They’ve had their own referendums (two of them), the last ending 50.1 to 49.9% to remain in Canada. I was in Montreal that night, and attended the ensuing riot—which was fairly polite for a riot–Oh, Canada, eh?

    Unlike my feelings for happenings across the pond, I am 100% in favour of kicking the frogs out of Canada if they ever pull a stunt like that again. Good riddance to the lot of them, and a pox on their poutine. Just let me buy up all the smoked meat from Schwartz’s first.

  3. > “Can we then finish what we started at Culloden?”

    Point of fact: Culloden was as much Protestant vs Catholic as Covenanter vs Stuart. And Scots fought on both sides. I visited Culloden in 2013 and the descriptions there were very one-sided.

  4. >>why did not all interested parties — including the English and Welsh — vote on separation?

    Come the impending balkanization of the USA, do you really want NYC, LA and CHI to have any say, nevermind a determining one, in how Texas chooses to chart its course?

    Pop of Texas: ~28mm
    Pop of Urban Blue Bastions: ~20mm in first 10, excluding cities in Texas

  5. And while each group bitches about the other, both are being replaced by the ROPMA.

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