Pah

1. Color me intrigued with the revolver laser sight; I’m seriously considering one for my most frequent EDC: Ruger LCR. Some cursory poking around reveals quite a price range, from $100 – $400. I’m inclined to think it’s an investment worth making, even at the upper end. Should the fit ever hit the shan, I’d prefer to not have to reload after my initial salvo has been expended.

2. I seems to me that the “Fudd” term has come to mean idiots who don’t mind any gun control that prohibits anything but their pre-’64 Winchester 70’s and Colt Pythons. “They came for the black rifles, but I don’t have a black rifle, so I didn’t do anything.”
   If that’s not your attitude, then eschewing a red dot doesn’t make you a Fudd, but it may make you a traditionalist, which is a fine thing to be. (I am reminded of William Lind’s Retroculture movement here.)
   We do need a term for those folks who insist that you shoot 1000 rounds a month at the range, use a timer, go to every available class, and shoot “against the clock” in order to be judged worthy. The internet is full of those people (I am looking at you Tam Keel, among many others) and they’re insufferable.

   1. Tam Keel does all that stuff and writes about for a living. She’s forgotten more than most of us will ever know. I’ve learned a lot from her blog over the years. For free. Term? How about “Thanks”.

      1. Tamera Keel has always been overrated. Her rating continues to rise while nothing about her has changed since the first day she started writing.
         She’s pretty much the dollar bill of the internet. Never worth a lot to start with, and now inflated into nothingness.
         A Fudd is a “I don’t care about gun control as long as I have my hunting rifle” idiot. Always has been.

   2. Wait until the gun grabbers come for their “sniper rifles.”

      1. That’s what they will call them. Imagine, hitting your target at 100 yards, let alone 200!

   3. “I seems to me that the “Fudd” term has come to mean idiots who don’t mind any gun control that prohibits anything but their pre-’64 Winchester 70’s and Colt Pythons. “They came for the black rifles, but I don’t have a black rifle, so I didn’t do anything.””

      This IS the definition of a fudd. Anything otherwise is espousing ignorance as the younger generations tend to do.

      “We do need a term for those folks who insist that you shoot 1000 rounds a month at the range, use a timer, go to every available class, and shoot “against the clock” in order to be judged worthy.”

      I call these people “gay gun gamers”. I had to leave a gun club that was taken over by them. They went so far as to use club funds saved over decades to reconfigure to range to be almost exclusively geared toward their games. Then they only allowed “general shooting” a couple days a week, the rest of the time being reserved for their “practice time” and gaming on the weekends. These people are just like the filthy commies in society that insist you do things their way or not at all. Hell can’t burn ’em hot enough to suit me.

   4. We do need a term for those folks who insist that you shoot 1000 rounds a month at the range, use a timer, go to every available class, and shoot “against the clock” in order to be judged worthy.

      I would suggest government lackey, because you know if they have to “allow” the proles to possess guns, that and a two-thousand dollar safe will be the minimum for an ownership license.

3. I am in my late 30s. Ina. Previous similar post I was accused of being a FUDD. Far from it.

   I have a scope on one of my rifles. I also have zero issue with red dots or similar electronic optics on rifles though I only use old
   Fashioned scopes at this time. But I demand that iron sights are on the rifle as a backup. Electronics can and do fail.

   On handguns I don’t see the point of a red dot. Or electronic gizmo. Other than maybe the laser grip mentioned in this article, the electronic sights are not something you’ll end up using up close and personal in defense in most cases. I’m Not against them. I myself just won’t put that type of sight on a handgun. Again lasers are fine. Laser grips are actually great.

   I guess I am one of the few young peeps in the gun world that prefers iron sights with some exceptions.

   By the way, I’m not a 1911 fan but that optic on the 1911 makes it look terrible in my opinion. Just my .02 cents…

4. I was fortunate to not be born with the envy-jealous gene. I simply don’t care what other people own. I happen to like ALL weapons and I don’t prefer any over any others. I do wish, however, that I was wealthier and owned more of them.

   I am currently building a .50 caliber flintlock pistol from scratch and when it’s done I will have the experience to build a .50 flintlock rifle from scratch.

   I started down this building path about 5 years ago when I built my 5.56 race gun from off the shelf parts, then a model 870 tactical marine magnum, then a Ruger 10-22 race gun, and an S&W M+P tactical .22. I just like guns and see no reason to not continue on this path. Oh yeah, if I have a weakness it is believing I don’t have enough ammo. Have about 40k on hand and that just isn’t enough. Lastly, from a Vedders holster at 4 o’clock, and can draw and get a round on target 21 feet away with that S&W in just over 2 seconds most days. Takes practice, and you have to like it.

   1. 50 cal flint lock sounds cool.

      There’s something really satisfying about older stuff.

      I really enjoy the Ruger Single Six convertible. Old school single action revolver. I have some Double action revolvers as well, which are also old school compared to todays Semi’s

      Revolvers, Bolt actions, black powders and other old school stuff is really cool. It is reliable and enjoyable.

      New stuff is great too. Just something about that old school world really is even greater.

   2. Oh and the Ruger 10 22, in my opinion, is my favorite rifle overall ever. For a modern semi auto rifle it is reliable, versatile, affordable and mods and parts are available galore, the sky is the limit.
      And even with all this fiat currency printing like it’s going out of style, the 10 22 is still fairly affordable to use on the range.

      Though I do miss the days of $ 10 dollar bricks of 500 22 LR ammo. Circa 2011.

      Now those bricks are 35 to 50 bucks.

5. When I finally convinced my wife to learn how to shoot, get a carry license and start carrying a gun, we started with a S&W M&P whatever plastic fantastic that had a laser sight on it. I figured it might help her learn to shoot better. (It didn’t, that’s another story). My experience with that is if you don’t already have the necessary skills to get the pistol close to on target, the laser’s dot going be useless. Depending on lighting, the laser’s dot going be invisible. You’ll waste precious seconds trying to see a red dot while staring in the face of imminent peril. Finally, at bad guy in the parking lot range, using any sight is going take longer than the traditional point and shoot. My advice to her was just point it at their gut (not aim, just point) and pull the trigger until it goes click. Took the laser off and gave it away.

   That said, I put an el cheapo red dot sight on my 10/22 rifle and she just fricking LOVES it. A woman who’s always hated guns will burn thru a brick plinking away at cans, bowling pins, falling disks, etc. with that .22 cause all she’s gotta do is put the red dot on target and squeeze. So, red dot scope for the win, laser takes last place. At least in my experience.

   1. During my time managing a small (12 lanes) indoor range/retail store, I had the opportunity to observe many shooters. Concur with your experience, especially about most folks reaction when ‘losing’ the dot. Further–

      Shooters today come to a laser sight with a ‘heads-up display, fire and forget’ frame of mind. They become a bit flustered when they discover that the dot simply WILL NOT hold still when mounted to a human, and in fact jumps around like a cat on a hot roof. Invariably their solution is to try to ‘grab’ (jerk) the shot in the micro-second the dot is centered. You can watch the dot dive completely off the target. Yeah, it takes practice.

      The good news is that the laser is a wonderful training aid for your grip, especially for a double action revolver shooting. If the dot moves when you pull the trigger, adjust your grip until it doesn’t.

6. I tried a red dot of some sort on a Ruger Mk II pistol at an open house held at a club I used to go to. It was robo gun as far as dot on target was quick and accurate. They’ve since become smaller and less obtrusive on a handgun. They do need some practice to get used to them but they can be a helpful tool.

   I prefer mastering iron sights on firearms because they don’t need batteries etc. I do have a scope on a rifle but the rest remain without sights beyond the iron sights.

   I don’t eschew technology. I do however demand that such technology be an actual improvement to performance and reliable. Same goes for cartridges. 6.5 Creedmoor and company have been taking the firearms industry by storm but the more I read, the more I see that there is not need for me to change my gear since something new has been developed. I remember the .45 GAP and the Winchester Short Magnum cartridges that came out. I doubt that ammunition is made anymore. Even .40S&W is rumored to be on they way out. I speculate that .30 Super Carry won’t last unless enough police departments adopt the cartridge. The 5.7x?? has clung on with a couple more pistol manufacturers, Smith & Wesson and Ruger I believe, joining HK or whomever to make more firearms chambered in this cartridge.

   JQ

7. I have a major problem with the older trend of putting flashlights on a defensive firearm, whether it’s a pistol, rifle or shotgun. One of the four basic rules of firearms safety is “never point your weapon at something you’re not willing to poke a hole in” is obliterated by weapon-mounted lights. How are you going to light something up to see (literally) what it is without pointing your muzzle at it? Are you supposed to sweep it across the floor, ceiling or walls and depend on reflected light to illuminate your (potential) target? In an emergency I can almost guarantee that the user will point the light, and therefore the muzzle of the firearm, right at the (potential) target.

   If it turns out that it’s not a good target (say, your kid stumbling around in the kitchen at 3 AM during a power outage) you’ve just pointed a potentially lethal weapon at something/someone you love…this is generally considered to be BAD.

   We’ve got 2-D-cell Maglites scattered through the house; the batteries get swapped out twice a year even if they’re not used. There’s one standing upright next to my nightstand that also contains the small sliding-drawer type gun vault holding the bedside .45. If the power is out I can still light up whatever has woken me up by pointing a flashlight at it with my left hand, while still keeping the muzzle of the .45 pointed safely at the floor. More importantly if it DOES turn out to be something/someone that shouldn’t be there, I can safely point the flashlight right into their eyes without having the muzzle point there, but at center-of-mass. No, in my not-so-humble opinion it doesn’t need to be a paint-melting 4 billion candle-power light; somebody stumbling around our house in the dark is going to be totally dazzled by the light from an ordinary flashlight right in their eyes.

   I also like the meme that shows a finger on a light switch saying, “Here’s one simple trick for identifying targets in a dark house.” If the power is on, I’m using the lights.

   I may be considered a Luddite, if that’s their new definition of “Fudd”, but the use of red-dots on a defensive firearm strikes me as a poor choice as well. They are slower to deploy, and as noted by many above, almost impossible to use quickly in an emergency unless hundreds of hours and thousands of rounds are expended every year just to maintain proficiency. Easily broken, requiring batteries (despite their claims of 5-year life), I’ll depend on something that doesn’t easily break down. At least they’re not as dumb as a weapon-mounted light.

   1. I’m not sure what orifice you’re talking out of when it comes to red dots. “Hundr we ds of hours and thousands of rounds”? Nonsense! There’s a learning curve, for sure, but that’s a ludicrous estimation of the effort. Try a few hours of dry firing, drawing and dry firing, and then a couple or three hundred rounds through the gun. Then practice just the same as you must with iron sights. Good modern red dots have (or allow) cowitnessing iron sights at the bottom of the window. Guess what? My large, high-visibility tritium front sight works just as well as it ever did, red dot or no red dot. So why should I care that theoretically the red dot might fail? Theoretically, it’s possible for the front sight to go flying off, too (as a friend’s new Glock did on his first time with it), but who in their right mind then insists that it’s better not to use sights at all because they might sometimes disappear or drift? Outside of the ghetto, I mean. They don’t know what sights are. As I’m nearing retirement, the red dot is the best thing that’s ever happened for my eyes. No one is using sights much at a few feet or less. Any sights. But with a red dot on my Sig P365, I can shoot as well at 100′ with a not terribly good trigger and a 3″ barrel as I can with a full-sized 1911 or my Walther 5″ PPQ, both with iron sights. Without the red dot, my groups with the the P365 double in size at longer ranges, at least. There’s certainly nothing to snag on the draw, as some have complained elsewhere. Maybe there might be a couple of old, oversized monstrosities still around. But there simply isn’t anything to snag, any more than iron sights could snag (if you really, really work at it). My wife has a Sig P239 in .380 ACP, with a laser “sight”. She loves it. And if she’s in bright sunlight, what does she care if the dot might be harder to spot? As she said, “If it’s that bright, I’ll use the fucking sights unless they’re close!” If the battery dies and it’s dark, she’ll use the tritium night sights. The delay of deciding is trivial if you’ve spent more than a trivial amount of time thinking ahead and practicing a bit. And no, thousands of rounds aren’t necessary unless you’re special forces or some other sort of operator and someone else is paying for the ammunition and training. My father and father-in-law were both competition pistol shooters in the military (so thousands of rounds in some years were available). My elderly father-in-law loved red dots before Parkinson’s put an end to shooting, and my father would’ve loved them had he lived long enough to see what’s out there now. Aging eyes are a cast-iron bitch, and red dots work really, really well to counter that.

8. I’m a traditionalist – brown rifles with iron sights. Stick shift is a bolt gun. The ergonomics of the black rifles are hard for me to shoot. I like the 1911, in .45ACP.

   All that said, if someone wants to use lasers, dots, lights, etc. – more power to them. Hits are what count. At the ranges I’ll be shooting, irons will get the job done just fine.

9. On my carry guns and range guns I have laser or red dot sights on all of them except for my 1911 Government 9mm. I am going to any new pistol I buy. My eyes are not as sharp as they used to be.

10. My definition of Fudd is similar. When I joined my first gun club in Illinois, it was run by hunters and trap shooters. They allowed us to shoot pistols, grudgingly, but never allowed the club to show support for any 2A initiatives, and really looked down at us for even mentioning self defense. Black rifles were also considered bad juju, and they only wanted to remain invisible, thinking that 2A and black rifles would bring down the .gov on us all, and lead to further restrictions.

    They started to change when a younger crowd came in and lobbied for things like bowling pin shoots and provided enough funding and manpower to actually build a covered, enclosed range for that.

    The Fudds with their $5,000+ over-and-under trap guns were not happy.

    OBTW, re: red dots. When we were shooting pins, we used to have special rounds where we used .22s and shot wine corks at 25 feet. For that game, red dots ruled.

11. I posted this on the article, and I”ll repost it here:

    I strongly disagree with the premise of this article. Fudds aren’t gun Luddites, or even an innocent split between users of sporting vs defensive arms.

    The essential characteristic of the Fudd is, and has always been the willingness to throw defensive and tactical gun users under the bus, both as socially illegitimate gun users, and as political expendables. Fudds have demonstrated perfect willingness to tolerate “assault weapon” bans, no issue CCW policies, and even a large menu of handgun bans, so long as gun control inc assures them that their duck and Bambi blasters are safe.

    To say that the definition as “evolved” is to destroy its essential meaning, which is something we cannot afford as a community unified in robust gun rights.

    1. Precisely.

12. The suppository guns are still only a fad. Load your guns from the front end, the way that Robert Wogdon and Samuel Colt intended. Remember, I’m shooting while you’re playing Hunchback of Notre Range picking up brass. 🙂

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