Sound Advice

Kurt Schlichter tells us to be self-reliant (or, as he calls it, “rooftop Koreans”) during times when the SHTF, and lo, he speaketh da troof.

I suspect that the majority of my Readers have long since decided on that course of action — and if they haven’t, they’re either disarmed Brits (cricket bats are not much use on rooftops) or else Murkin denizens of liberal enclaves where they’ve been told to “leave it to the police” — and pretty much have  to do that because their local gummint has made the Koreans’ AR-15s illegal.

For discussion in Comments today:  assuming that possession of eeeeevil-looking AR / AK rifles is verboten  in your locale, what would be your alternative “rooftop” gun?  State gun type and chambering, please, with reasons.

35 comments

  1. Having spent the first 35 years of my life in NYFC then the next 20 in PRNJ, it’s a question I’ve given considerable thought to.

    Option 1: M1 Garand (in NYC you need to remove the bayonet lug due to the large number of drive by bayonetings). Powerful enough that what you hit will lie down and stay still, accurate enough to reach beyond self defense to murder, fast reloads if you don’t catch your thumb.

    Option 2: Winchester or Marlin lever action I. 30-30 or 44 mag. Only the most pearl clutching hoplophobe would have the vapors over a cowboy rifle.

    Option 3: Winchester, Mossberg etc pump shotgun, loaded with buckshot and with slugs available should you need to reach out and screw someone.

    Mark D (with a space)

  2. Like Mark D said. Lever action 30/30 and a pump 12ga.
    Those 2 guns can consistently and reliably deliver the most volume and accurate rates of fire after all the eeevulll guns have been stolen.

    For me, now, that is a Marlin 336 and a Remington 870 Marine magnum, both with black poly stocks (Magpul on the 870) and stainless everything else, black glass and furniture and about 8k rounds for each.

    Up close it would be a pair of Colt Pythons, which I don’t have and prolly never will (I’m not Bezos) in black/silver and a belt load of speedloaders and 10k rounds.

  3. Depends on what IS legal. There’s a lot to be said for the M-1 carbine. Light, handy, accurate enough to 200 yards or more. The Garand is also a keeper. In bolt guns, the M1917 Enfield. It may not be pretty, but it has good sights and is rugged as all hell.

  4. Because of Antifa and BLM, and my daily commute into a high risk zone (Houston), I have had similar thoughts about my “truck” gun. If they start a riot and I get caught up in it, my need is similar to the situation you describe. High capacity, adequate caliber, good accuracy to medium (3 to 200 yards) range. An added constraint in my case is handiness.

    Since it would live in the car, it can’t be a collector gun or terribly expensive, which rules out the M1 Carbine. AR15 is too bulky. Henry lever-action .357 is too expensive given its limited tube magazine.

    I decided on the Ruger PC9 carbine in 9mm. Even though Kim thinks 9mm sucks, well, he’s just wrong. It’s a compromise, sure, but a reasonable one.

    Still haven’t bought it yet, so I’ve got an AR back there. I think it’ll be my birthday present to myself this Summer.

    1. Get the Ruger PC40 — at least you’ve got the .40S&W and not the Euroweenie pellet.

  5. Agree on the lever gun. Easy to shoot and politically correct. The .30-30 is still a decent medium range round. Unfortunately grandpa’s old Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 (and this old guy owns both) are a little limited in capacity. For short range work a pistol caliber lever carbine in .357 or .44 would add a couple of rounds before the need to reload. If I was forced by some unavoidable circumstance to return to the land of my birth – the People’s Republic of New Jersey – my rooftop gun might be my Rossi 92 loaded with 158 grain semiwadcutter .38s.

    My brother is waiting for his wife to retire so he can leave Jersey. Until then his roof gun is an old Enfield Jungle Carbine. I found a couple of ten round magazines and a handful of stripper clips so he has some fast reloads. Long term ammunition availability might be a little tough but he has a couple of hundred rounds of military ball and hunting soft points to keep people off his lawn.

  6. Assuming I’m actually standing on a rooftop, then there’s no reason not to have several guns at hand.

    1. Almost any scoped deer rifle that I’ve personally sighted in. Popping a few lead goblins in the head from a hundred yards out would probably do wonders in dissuading the rest of the mob from approaching.

    2. As several others have stated, a lever gun in any reasonable caliber. Hell, even a rimfire lever gun loaded with 20 or so shorts would make a statement in terms of fire volume and the howling, screaming, crying thugs might further dissuade those in back from following. Plus shooting a rimfire is real fun, as your rimfire post states.

    3. Shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge, pump/auto/break-open etc. Doesn’t matter. You’re standing on a roof, dammit, fire two rounds and duck down to reload.

    1. Train the wife-unit to reload and Bob’s your uncle.

      3 or more Henry’s (the cheap one) would be good to go, in 357. At least three because I can shoot faster (accurately) then she can reload with only two.

      1. Figger after 4 rifle loads they’re running or I’mna dead.

        I win the lottery though, and it’s a Mag 58 aka M240 for me. And then she just has to hold the belt.

  7. Not that anyone actually makes one, but my ideal “roof gun” (defending fixed, elevated position against ground attack)….

    20 ga, belt-fed, pintle-mounted, hand-cranked Gatling Gun. With one of those 4 in. “screen” EOTech type sights that the .mil u$e$.

    With #4 buck, the “beaten zone” would be well and truly thrashed, bent, folded, stapled, mutilated and…. beaten!

    I’d call it my AA gun. Nope, not aircraft.

    Anti-Antifa.

    Greedy bastard, you say? I’d say “I resemble that remark!”

    Jim
    Sunk New Dawn
    Galveston, TX

  8. M1 Garand, but rechambered in .308.

    .44 Magnum lever gun.

    Beretta 1301 if semiautomatic shotguns are legal, Mossberg 590A1 if they’re not.

    CZ Scorpion pistol & brace, if a braced pistol is legal. Otherwise, a Scorpion carbine or a Ruger PC9.

    The options are limitless, but I’d still rather have my ARs.

  9. I was born, raised, and raised a family in California. I was a sole proprietor FFL there for nearly 20 years. Escaped Kalifornia for Texas. I keep my old “assault weapon” registration form from the 1990’s in my desk as a reminder.

    No more running. If they want my AR(s), they will have to assault the roof top I am on to get it. That experience will give them serious pause come the next roof top.

    All good comments above. As to lever guns, for optics to aid aging eyes, I would point out that Marlins come drilled and tapped for mounts.

    Here is a suggested topic for discussion—How do you intend to carry your ammo and/or magazines?

    Would be most pleased to make Kim’s acquaintance at a range sometime.

    1. He’s talking fixed point defense here. No need to carry. He has, in a previous life asked what do you carry across the continent if you are limited to…

      Mebbe he’ll do that again.

  10. For kissing distance, nothing beats a 12 guage semi auto with some buckshot and slugs, just because I like watching the holes appear like magic. The Remington 1100 is my personal favorite.

    For when you really want to reach out and touch someone, the Lee Enfield In .303 is always handy. As for the commenter above who’s said it’s ugly, I’ll bet you think your wife has pointy elbows too! I find it to be a thing of beauty, especially with the full wooden stock.

    After that? Anything that shoots .308. The poodle shooter is great for small rats, but for a real love tap, the .308 is a real joy. My preference? The FN works for me. Maybe even get one of those modern versions being made.

    What? More? Oh then I’ve got to have a Barret 50 cal semi auto. Why semi auto? To reduce the kick between shots, of course. Nothing says “stop” quite like a second round put dead center to the target.

    For a handgun, I’m still a fan of the 9mm browning. This one will be shiny.

    And since i’m dreaming, I’m also imagining the quarter of a million rounds I’ve stored in the lower basement, of each caliber.

    Why these choices? No real logical reason. Part nostalgia, part romanticism and that’s good enough reason for me.

    Wait, did you want realistic choices?

  11. Probably not enough thought put into this, but maybe…

    1. SKS – decent medium range round that I can carry more ammo than I could a .308 or 30.06. I can’t hit far enough out to make .308 necessary. Takes bigger magazines than M1. Has a bayonet.

    2. Mosin M-44 – short, powerful, bayonet, and if the round doesn’t get them at close range, the fireball and concussion will finish them off.

    3. Rossi M92 in .357. Because I have it, and as mentioned above, it isn’t “scary”. Maybe I don my Stetson to make it even less scary.

  12. I am too old to run and hide and thankful I live in the Texas Hill Country where ARs are plentiful including mine in .556 and 6.8spc all sighted in and stuff. Were I unable to use them I like long guns and would start at the bottom with M-1 carbine and several 30 round magazines and then move on up to deer rifles with decent scopes sighted in at 150 yds. starting with my heavy barrel, too damn heavy to run very far 22-250 with 20 power scope, it would be good for keeping folks a football and a half away by shooting them in the eyeballs and having their buddies covered with brains blown out the back of their skulls.

    If possible I don’t want to have bad people get close enough for a shotgun, I am also in favor of shooting from cover, one well aimed round at a time since I don’t want to carry too much ammunition. Having said all that bad assed stuff, I hope and pray that I never find out what works and doesn’t and given the chance at my age my wife I will be packed up in my truck and several miles away joining up with others that share my political views and own more guns that me.

  13. RE:
    In preference order:
    1) One MEF (Marine Expeditionary Force) Reason: because it works!
    2) MK44 Bushmaster II (30MM chain gun) Reason: sounds like fun, and the skells may have vehicles or hide behind heavy stuff.
    3) General Electric M61A1 Vulcan (20MM Gatling) Reason: 30MM ammo for the Bushmaster may be hard to come by or weigh too much for the roof structure.
    4) Brand name AR-10 (DD5 or-maybe-SA’s new Saint, haven’t seen it yet). Reason: AR-10s work and they ain’t poodle shooters.
    5) SMLE MK III (assumes .303 British) plus a spare, although the MK III is pretty damn reliable. Reason: They work, they’re effective, and cycling the bolt is almost orgasmic. If Tommy Atkins can stand in freezing mud and shred Fritzes at 300+ yards with one, it ought to work just fine for Mad Minutes from the grocery store roof. And it’s a 5-round bolt rifle, so it has to be on the “approved” list (unless “California;” the Left Coasters are scared of everything).
    6) 5 each Marlin 20-inch 336s in .30-30 with Wild West Guns ghost ring sights (one to shoot while the other 4 are being reloaded by the ammunition bearers). Reason: Anti-gun wusses haven’t banned them yet, and – probably – 200 meters is probably a long shot in an urban environment.
    7) 5 each Marlin 20-inch 1894 rifles in .44. Mag (see #5). Reason: same as the .30-30, but ~ 150 meters and it does hold more rounds.

    As a side note, tiered defense – one rank of .30-30s for >100M and and another of 44 Mag for <100M would probably work well, as would teaching the defenders to manage their own "lane;" although the MK III could handle both distances easily. A little organization would go a long way to educating the rabble.

    Study, analyze, develop, train to what's developed, practice the training. The tools are important, but the workers more so; Davy Deadeye with a beat up lever rifle can be more effective than Harvey Halfass with an M2; do not underestimate the value of trained, precise, unrelenting semi-automatic fire, or even something close to it, that completely owns a 400 meter radius.

    1. IIRC all SMLE’s (#1, #4, #5) are 10-rd.
      The P-14 was 5-rd, but that was a Mauser clone.

  14. Keeping it to what I actually have available:

    #1 M-1 Garand in .30-06. In the past I’ve been able to hit the X at 600 yards with it so should be good for any Suburban Live Fire Exercises. Plus, unlike the poor bastards in NYFC, mine has it’s bayonet lug and I have the appropriate accessories so if it comes to close in…

    Yeah it’s heavy, but in the roof top Korean scenario we’re talking fixed position, most likely firing from a supported position.

    And it can’t be evil. The US Government sold it to me!

    If I had to move (as in E&E out of the area, maximum sneak and peek, minimum shooting) I’d go with.

    #2 Mossberg 500 12 GA. Take a box or so of slugs along for reaching out at a distance or through “cover”.

    #3 Spanish FR-8 in .308. Light weight compared to the Garand, excellent Mauser action, carbine length handy for close in and I have the bayonet for that as well :).

  15. From what I’ve got around the house, my choice would be:

    #1: My “Ishapore” Lee-Enfield, in .308 NATO. The iron sights on it are worn, but it’ll reach out and touch a goblin at a good long distance.

    #2: My .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen, if I can get ammunition for it. Smooth action, and while the Army replaced it, it’ll kill a goblin as dead as he’s ever going to be.

    #3: Either my AK clone or my SKS—I’ve got tons of ammunition for both of those, and they’re stone reliable.

    1. #2: My .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen, if I can get ammunition for it. Smooth action, and while the Army replaced it, it’ll kill a goblin as dead as he’s ever going to be.

      Minor quibble: Krag-Jorgensens don’t “kill”, they “Civilize.” 😉

  16. MarkD without the space…

    My M14, because it’s what I’ve got, and it always goes bang, and it’s not like I’d have to lug the ammo through the bush. If you can’t hit it with 20 rounds, reload. If you can’t stop it with a .308, you probably ought to hide. It’ll shoot through most improvised cover, and I doubt I can see beyond its effective range from my rooftop.

    Even in NY, the M14 would be legal if I replaced the real flash suppressor with one of those faux non-bayonet-lugged jobs and used 10 round magazines. Not that I have any of those, because I already escaped NY.

  17. Since we are on the roof and I don’t plan on letting anyone close enough to need close in stuff I would have my Savage bolt action 30-06. It would not be banned and it would work as far as I can see. And since I only have hunting rounds it would leave really big holes.

  18. Any bolt action .30-06 with a scope, plain wood furniture, preferable bought privately.

    The ammo is ubiquitous. .308 is God’s caliber, but .30-06 is the Old Testament God’s caliber.

  19. From a rooftop???
    Molotov Cocktails are always useful if you have any usable arm strength.

  20. My thoughts are similar to a lot of others if I were denied my Mini-14.

    First, I don’t see much reason for my hunting bolt action because inner city mobs aren’t going to have any distance weapons themselves, and long distance sniping is going to be frowned upon by the authorities (if they find out).

    Instead, I’ll take a Marlin lever action in .357 Magnum with a red dot sight, to reach out and tag the bad guys at moderate ranges. An 18″ barrel gives .357 ammo quite a bit of extra zip. It has good magazine capacity and is fairly quick to reload, and easy to wing-shoot moving targets with it.

    Next, I’ll take a pump 12 gauge in an extended magazine self-defense version, either Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, with lots of 00 buckshot for closer targets. There’s something about that black 0.730″ bore that’s, well, intimidating in a lovely way.

    And remember the second rule of gun fighting: Bring lots of friends, suitably armed, of course.

  21. London calling. We got nothing, (apart from good manners). What I’d like, (and haven’t got), would be a Lee Enfield .303, cos I like to hit what I shoot at. If we’re talking about wish lists, an AK47 (not an AK74) could be jolly useful.

  22. Bargain bin SKS is a perfect rooftop gun. Carbine length, plenty of cheap fodder and bought it for 50 bucks as someone had carbonized the gas port then broken the spring and plunger. $20 in parts and a good cleaning/lube is all it took to get it humming. Good to 100 yards teacup target spread with iron sights.

  23. Cricket bats? How quaint! 🙂 We have croquet mallets.

    Mind you, if firearms become available, I’ll have one in a heartbeat.

  24. My roof and I are invisible. We don’t exist.

    Here at the farm, for the safety of all concerned, each of our 7000# pickup trucks has a ‘PedestrianEncouragementDevice™’ mounted in place of the front bumper. Caliber unknown.

    PS:
    And ‘yes’, I am familiar with the Pound Me Too movement.

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